Moyes: the devil incarnate?

[Bez625]

We have been letting important first team fringe players leave and have not reinvested that cash in either better players or similarly good ones.

Letting them leave? AJ wanted to go and had a bit of a disagreement with Moyes theres nothing you can do about that. I think the obvious thing is that we slowly worked him out of out first team, prefering 4-5-1 and Yak being the obvious lone striker, and he wasnt up for playing second fiddle when 3 clubs were offerin good money and he gets the relocation he wanted too. Also Carsley wouldnt stay for the season long deal we offered and we cant be offering massive contracts to players of his age, its simply not worth it. As for the rest leaving either not good enough or their clubs wanted more money than they were worth.

For 60k a week Moyes is employed to do the best he can in bringing the squad to a level that can cope with the demands of the coming season.

Its not just the coming season its the future, sure we could offer players like carsley bigger contracts, and the likes of Fernandes more than they are worth to come, but theres a big drain on money to keep what are ageing and to honest average players for the positions we're pushing for. Moyes is looking to the future and hes giving the youth a try, hes holding out for better players. Sure we could get bodies in and they could probably help us keep 5th spot, but is that the club we want to be? Mediocre cup placings and 5th every year?

At the moment, he's not doing what is required of him. It's no good going around offering deals to people that are either: (1) not interested; (2) not interested for the salary on the table; or (3) unavailable for the amount we want to invest. We need to deal in the current market place and that might mean Moutinho, Jo, Love, Arshavin et al are not available for us at this time.

I havent heard of any of our big targets say they arent interested, as far as the money goes if we couldnt afford them we would lose interest fast, its things like the Love deal where we get told he can come on loan then say we were misled that screw tings like that up, not the manager dithering. As far as the money goes its all about Bill, not Moyes.

But then again all this is speculation . Rightly or wrongly we dont really know whats happening over at GP just that we have a rough idea on targets who have reportedly said they want to come to us and nothings happening. To me that says Moyes has done his bit and unsettled them, got the interest in joining the prem, and then suddenly when money comes into it everything cools off. Surely you cant think moyes is to blame for this?

 

[ottozara]

its not moyes, its the market. am i the only person who choked on his dinner when robbie keane went for 20m.

those clubs who have had an active summer are owned by billionaires and the ones that aren't finished below us on the table.

there is a good reason why all of the names mentioned in the papers over the last few weeks have come to nothing.

moutinho - his club does not want to sell for what we are prepared to pay.
cana - arsenal said they're interested so....
m'bia - he's at the olympics. have you seen the state of the pitches in china. he could get injured tomorrow and then moyes gets hauled over the coals.
smith - what the!!!

the list goes on....

i do think we'll have numbers before end of august but seriously guys, some of the posters have a serious case of toonspurpompey (yes it's a medical condition) where one believes in spending money one does not have on talentless hacks.

reality check people. we are not that club.

 

[Nebbiolo]

its not moyes, its the market. am i the only person who choked on his dinner when robbie keane went for 20m.

those clubs who have had an active summer are owned by billionaires and the ones that aren't finished below us on the table.

there is a good reason why all of the names mentioned in the papers over the last few weeks have come to nothing.

moutinho - his club does not want to sell for what we are prepared to pay.
cana - arsenal said they're interested so....
m'bia - he's at the olympics. have you seen the state of the pitches in china. he could get injured tomorrow and then moyes gets hauled over the coals.
smith - what the!!!

the list goes on....

i do think we'll have numbers before end of august but seriously guys, some of the posters have a serious case of toonspurpompey (yes it's a medical condition) where one believes in spending money one does not have on talentless hacks.

reality check people. we are not that club.

That's true, we're a club that can't even field eleven first team players for the first game of the season.

 

[coyney]

For fear of getting a good cyber-kicking, especially from Halewood, it’s occurred to me that one of the chief problems in our summer of no signings (and the leakage of first team players over the past months) might – that’s might – be the Messiah himself, David Moyes.

It seems clear that Moyes does have money to spend as this has been blasted over the OS site a number of times. It is equally obvious, given that Moutinho has been a chief target, that we have a decent enough wedge. So what has Moyes been doing all this time? To my mind, you make a long list of potential targets and when it becomes apparent that individuals on that list are becoming too high maintenance, then you move on down it. What you ought not to do, is spend a summer fixated on specific faces and neglect plan Bs and Cs. Now we all know Moyes’ strengths but little has been said about his weaknesses lately. Unsurprisingly, his sterling performance over the last two seasons have made us rejoice in what we have, which is a damned good manager. But here’s the thing, I think Moyes is weak in the market and at making his mind up. A great manager should be able to identify a pool of talent and to be able convince it that the future is Everton. I don’t think Moyes is great at doing that. In fact, I would say that, as slippery as he is, that is more Kenwrights department, assuming Moyes actually gives him the nod on someone that might actually want to play for us.

I’m also getting a bit annoyed that Moyes hasn’t yet signed his contract. We’ve stood by him through really difficult times, as did Kenwright when many other chairmen would have booted him out. We let him lose the dressing room, Rooney’s respect, nearly get us relegated (in most years we would have been relegated) and balls up on adding a necessary striker during our attempt at Champions League soccer (a whole summer and he got precisely nothing). Kenwright even, if the rumours are true, talked him into staying on when it all got too much for Moyes, when he nearly buckled under the pressure. I just think Moyes ought to show us all some loyalty. I also believe that if he walked, it would be the biggest mistake of his career. There are no Man Uniteds waiting in the wings for him to be free. At best, Moyes is heading north to Glasgow, which is hardly a step up the greasy management pole.

This is just a theory of mine and I realise that there are varying factors involved in where we are now. And, in addition, I accept that Moyes has been a great manager up until this point. I also want him to sign that sodding contract and remain our manager for many years to come. I just don’t think he’s perfect and I’ve explained why above.

IMWT

The problem is there must be a good reason,or at least Moyse sees it that way or he would sign.as for other signings I'm more inclined to think Kenwright has his finger prints on the problem but it's all just guessing only two people know the truth and it will come out if Moyes walks.

 

[davek]

Pure fantasy. Pro-Kenwright propaganda.

 

[TX Bill]

It's really a combination of two factors and something Ghost of Dixie stated in another thread:

1) The values for players now is higher than it's ever been before. Maybe not much of a hinderance for a team like ManU or Chelsea but for a team like Everton, it is a BIG factor whether you like it or not.

2) You could drive a mack truck through the gap in quality between the type of players we were going for 5 years ago and the type of players we need to be going for now.

Regularly competing for a top 6 place and maintaining a spot in Europe will cost more money than it has in the past just due to the quality needed.

Moyes has to be much more careful about how he spends the money. That's just a fact, not speculation.

Could you have ever seen us going for a Moutinho type of player 5 years ago? Not a chance. But unfortunately, we all recognize that's the type of player we need if we're going to compete.

 

[Rook]

Our top 11 dusts Villa if we can stay healthy and not fatigued we will finish comfortably ahead of them.

I do think O'Neil has done very well in the transfer market, holding the line of Barry, getting Friedel, and adding alot of depth to the squad. However they are in Europe now and they are going to have to play a hell of alot of matches next year and could fatigue.

Ditto for Portsmouth, they might struggle playing in the UEFA cup as well. Plus their 2 strikers are going to have adjust to being everyday players now.

Man city will be closer to relegation than us.

Spurs have the talent but they also lost alot and brought in mainly players who don't have prem experience. 4th wouldn't suprise me and niether would 12th.

 

[uknightbreed]

Regularly competing for a top 6 place and maintaining a spot in Europe will cost more money than it has in the past just due to the quality needed.

this is thing i find puzzling.
if you compete in the top 6 and your in europe and it costs more money , doesnt the extra success bring in more revenue and pay for itself ?

 

[Bez625]

However they are in Europe now and they are going to have to play a hell of alot of matches next year and could fatigue.

So are we...

 

[Rook]

It's really a combination of two factors and something Ghost of Dixie stated in another thread:

1) The values for players now is higher than it's ever been before. Maybe not much of a hinderance for a team like ManU or Chelsea but for a team like Everton, it is a BIG factor whether you like it or not.

2) You could drive a mack truck through the gap in quality between the type of players we were going for 5 years ago and the type of players we need to be going for now.

Regularly competing for a top 6 place and maintaining a spot in Europe will cost more money than it has in the past just due to the quality needed.

Moyes has to be much more careful about how he spends the money. That's just a fact, not speculation.

Could you have ever seen us going for a Moutinho type of player 5 years ago? Not a chance. But unfortunately, we all recognize that's the type of player we need if we're going to compete.

So your saying the days of finishing 4th with a lone 750K striker is over?

How much would Moutinho really improve us though? We'd still be horribly thin (our biggest reason why we didn't finish 4th) and if he is all that, he'd just get tapped up approx 2.3 sec at the end of the season. I'm still in the grab a bunch of players for 2-6M and improve the depth camp.

 

[Rook]

So are we...

Yes but our players have been though a season with European football and are used to not having the same amount of days off to recover.

 

[Nebbiolo]

It's really a combination of two factors and something Ghost of Dixie stated in another thread:

1) The values for players now is higher than it's ever been before. Maybe not much of a hinderance for a team like ManU or Chelsea but for a team like Everton, it is a BIG factor whether you like it or not.

2) You could drive a mack truck through the gap in quality between the type of players we were going for 5 years ago and the type of players we need to be going for now.

Regularly competing for a top 6 place and maintaining a spot in Europe will cost more money than it has in the past just due to the quality needed.

Moyes has to be much more careful about how he spends the money. That's just a fact, not speculation.

Could you have ever seen us going for a Moutinho type of player 5 years ago? Not a chance. But unfortunately, we all recognize that's the type of player we need if we're going to compete.

I won't pretend to be an expert on the pedigree, or potential of it, of European players. But then I'm not part of a team which is paid very well to spot it. There are other men out there that won't cost in the same bracket as Moutinho that would still offer an improvement to the overall shape of the team. Just ask Toxteth Blue for his opinion, and he'll come up with a list of candidates. So why aren't we in for these guys? Why are we wasting all feckin' summer chasing pipe dreams? We might want the proven best, but unless we have that realistic chance of getting these guys in on terms that we can cope with, then what is the point of it all? We're not Arsenal, Man Utd or Chelsea. For us, it is not merely about tinkering around and getting in a couple of key faces. This is about rebuilding a squad. We can't do that on a £20-30m budget unless we accept that we have to look for more than just top-end purchases. Now, if it was the case that we'd brought in a few faces to fill the squad and had been thwarted in our attempts to bring in those bigger signings, perhaps a Moutinho or Love, then you would have to say that we've been unlucky. But we've done Jack [Poor language removed] other than let key personal leave. Someone is to blame for all this, or a combination of people are to blame. I'm sure that Kenwright hasn't necessarily helped the situation. But I think Moyes does have to carry some of the blame on his shoulders. All is not right at Goodison at the moment and I'm concerned that people merely see this as yet another Kenwrong problem, with Moyes somehow a virtuous little angel, at fault for nothing other than being Mr Perfect.

 

[Rook]

this is thing i find puzzling.
if you compete in the top 6 and your in europe and it costs more money , doesnt the extra success bring in more revenue and pay for itself ?

From what I understand (or read) that competing in the UEFA cup doesn't improve your revenues that much. Alot of teams barely break even, but I could be wrong.

 

[Bez625]

Yes but our players have been though a season with European football and are used to not having the same amount of days off to recover.

You mean Yak, Osman, Arteta, Cahill, Pienar, Jags, Neville, Yobo, Lescott and Howard. Cant think of any other players that played the majority of games last year, these are the ones that got us through an as you can see, there isnt 11 players in that list before we get to current/possible injuries.

The others that were here Carsley, Gravensen, Fernandes, AJ were all either part of it or had the experience. Now we are missing them plus we dont have a lot of fall backs.

Sorry to be doom and gloom but our squad is just about big enough to have a decent run at the premiership, with two cups and UEFA as well i dont think we have the experience or stamina to manage all 4. An early exit to one of them could be a blessing in disguise.

 

[Bez625]

We're not Arsenal, Man Utd or Chelsea. For us, it is not merely about tinkering around and getting in a couple of key faces. This is about rebuilding a squad.

Have you had your head in the sand for the past 6 years? We have rebuilt the squad, Moyes has found the way he wants to play and now we are in a place where we can get a couple of key signings to fit the way we play. Rebuilding the squad sounds like you want us to change to a new playing style with new players, and change the way we play the likes of Cahill, Arteta, Yak, Ossie etc good players who have taken us far.

If this is what you are saying then you may as well ignore the last seasons and everything we have accomplished, i mean who gives a [Poor language removed] how we got to 5th last season, lets ignore that and just start buying players and see how we could play them.

I'm sorry but from a team aspect we have come a long way under Moyes and IMO we need to replace those that have left and continue to play our way. Hopefully with new and our younger players improving the quality of the positions they play and pushing players that play the same position as them to do better. Rebuilding the squad would basically piss on what we have done in the past few seasons