Moyes is all i've known

[steken1]

Brilliant post mate. Post more.

I think you've summed his years up quite well. I'm just old enough to remember Joe Royle, the way the side played, the way he talked and how proud I was to be an Evertonian because of those things.

Moyes has done that too on occasion but not often. I'd like to feel like that again.

 

[dannyboy]

When Moyes took over I'd only ever known us to be relegation battlers, expected us to get beat most weeks and go out of the cups early. He completely transformed that and actually gave us youngsters a slight glimmer of hope when all we'd ever known was despair.

His consistency down the years has been unmatched, sure there's been times when forums have gone into meltdown and flavours of the month have been touted as a replacement but he's outlasted all of them. Owen Coyle, Mark Hughes etc.

People can lambast Moyes for not finishing ahead of the teams above us but just look at the stats since 2003.

Chelsea- £704,500,000
Manchester City- £605,220,000
Liverpool- £441,880,000
Tottenham- £369,900,000
Manchester United- £365,250,000
Arsenal- £252,500,000
Aston Villa- £216,850,000
Sunderland- £188,280,000
Newcastle- £185,800,000
West Ham- £143,880,000
Everton- £131,050,500

For us to improve upon our position we're basically asking for a minor miracle one season. To do it on a consistent basis is just never going to happen. No other manager outside the "big clubs" has came close to replicating what Moyes has achieved at Everton. I completely understand that 11 years is a long time and people want a change, but I can't help but feel you're all going to end up disappointed. I don't envy the manager who replaces Moyes at all.

 

[dholliday]

Great post, EJ...we all enjoy lengthy considered opinion threads

He took Everton to the top four. How many other teams have done this since his time in charge? (United, City, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool) When you look at the amount of money these clubs throw around, i think This can be labelled as a major success.

A 'massive achievement', you might say.

One of the first things I learnt about Everton Football Club soon after they found me was the motto: nil satis nisi optimum.

We may not always be the best, but we must always strive for it. In an era when money dominates football, this is proving harder than ever, to the point where our motto is in danger of becoming redundant, due to younger fans 'making do'. This isn't a criticism of the newer fan's perspective, it's a criticism of the damage corporate culture can do to football culture.

We may now be labelled as the best of the rest

We were best of the rest when it was just 4 teams who were better above us...now it's 6 teams...this is another reason for the bubbling discontent: we are letting teams who were behind us to jump ahead.

Europa League. Yeah, it may not be the Champions League, but at least it gave us younger fans a taste of European football.

Yeah, as short n sweet as it's been, they've been very fun!

Yakubu for 11m ffs! (what ever happened to that guy!)

äähm...he got a massive injury and then got stifled by Moyes' special brand of striker-love. He then moved to Blackburn and scored loadsa goals because his manager didn't limit his potential with back-tracking orders.

The cup runs gave us some great memories too, Gosling against liverpool, United in the semi's.

I didn't big this up at the time, nor will I now. United played their second string (not the first time they've belittled the Cup). When the opposition do that to us, it makes a mockery of nil satis...we should have spanked them 5-0, struggling to win on pens was almost shameful.

The players he bought for next to nothing. In my opinion this is his greatest sucess as a manager for Everton. Tim Cahill is about as close as i've got to an Everton Legend!

Agree with that bit. Moyes has done very well with bargain buys, and Cahill is up there with Dunc as a respected post-success hero. He'll be remembered fondly over the coming years.

Player management. I have to say one thing i admire about Moyse is that he doesnt take nonsense from players who just disrespect the club. Look at Drenthe or Jo.

This is actually a limitation of his player management skills. If you look at the best managers, they are able to turn a conflict with a player into an asset for the team. A famous example is how Alex Ferguson dealt with Rooney's contract strop, or how after he kicked a boot into Beckham's face, he got some of Becks' best performances soon after. Managers who win are able to adapt to situations, because they react pro-actively, not reactively. Moyes is a reactive manager, he wasn't able to turn the issues with Beckford, Drenthe, VDM et al into an advantage.

Thus, he will never be Man Utd manager.


The rest of your post is spot-on, especially this bit:

if he does leave in the summer, i'll thank him for his efforts and some cracking memories.

 

[dholliday]

People can lambast Moyes for not finishing ahead of the teams above us but just look at the stats since 2003.

Chelsea- £704,500,000
Manchester City- £605,220,000
Liverpool- £441,880,000
Tottenham- £369,900,000
Manchester United- £365,250,000
Arsenal- £252,500,000
Aston Villa- £216,850,000
Sunderland- £188,280,000
Newcastle- £185,800,000
West Ham- £143,880,000
Everton- £131,050,500

What stats is that? Turnover? Capital? Club-worth? Players-in spend? Over how long a period? Net or gross?

Stats are one thing, but context is another.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

Good post. Can understand your perspective and very well balanced write up.


dholiday, I agree with most of your post. However, with regards to Yakubu, he didn't do much after Christmas in his first season with Blackburn. And pre-injury, I'm pretty sure his best ever goals return was his first season with us.

 

[jamieni]

Moyes has done a decent job but I think that we shouldn't be afraid to embrace change. Lets face it, if nothing changes in the boardroom then why would there be any point in Moyes staying? He will want to try and further his career at some stage (although I don't see him managing a top English team) and We should be looking to the future instead of fretting. My mate, a Leeds fan, said we'd be like Charlton without DM! Personally I think that's the view from outsiders but in reality we still have one of the better squads in the Prem. A lot of decent managers would be happy to have our first 11.

I think DM has run his course, but for that i mainly blame the board. Would Fergie have stayed so long at Utd if the board were as useless as our lot? I think we need a new man who is up for the challenge, not a good servant who has seen his ambitions ground into the dust by a lack of funding.

 

[Christiffa25]

Moyes has weaknesses but I truly believe they are highlighted more by the squad of players at his disposal. It's easy to rotate and be "ballsie" with subs when you have 6 quality players sat there waiting to come on/in...

U can have a different manager who may do things differently...make earlier changes in games, give more game time to other's ect ect but I honestly believe the end result at best would be the same.

Moyes has a lot of strengths that get ignored when things ain't going to well.

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't!!

 

[edge]

he has done ok given the lack of backing, not the style of footy i like to see , but on balance he has done a decent job , mid ranking in terms of past managers in my time not a Kendal or Big joe, not as bad walker more a gordon lee or bingham or harvey, imagine the likes of walker being around for ten years with no money we would be playing brentford next week instead of city, He needs to test himself at a club that might win something to see if he really is that good , staying here must bore the arse of him,plodding along never quite getting there, time for a change , but can bill afford to let him go, intresting times ahead

 

[harry]

he has done ok given the lack of backing, not the style of footy i like to see , but on balance he has done a decent job , mid ranking in terms of past managers in my time not a Kendal or Big joe, not as bad walker more a gordon lee or bingham or harvey, imagine the likes of walker being around for ten years with no money we would be playing brentford next week instead of city, He needs to test himself at a club that might win something to see if he really is that good , staying here must bore the arse of him,plodding along never quite getting there, time for a change , but can bill afford to let him go, intresting times ahead

Moyes will never come close to that 95 cup run.

 

[edge]

Moyes will never come close to that 95 cup run.

you know what harry, it must go down as one of are biggest mistakes letting him go, last time anybody at the club really got what everton were about, no plucky little everton for joe, no money cant buy at the top end, but effort , nerve and a nastly little steak about the team and no backing down to any team no matter who they were, if he had been given the backing i believe we could have become a giant again, shame really

 

[harry]

you know what harry, it must go down as one of are biggest mistakes letting him go, last time anybody at the club really got what everton were about, no plucky little everton for joe, no money cant buy at the top end, but effort , nerve and a nastly little steak about the team and no backing down to any team no matter who they were, if he had been given the backing i believe we could have become a giant again, shame really

Totally agree mate, people always say "you wouldnt want it like it was in the 90's" I look at the mid 90's under big joe as my favourite. I was 14 when we last won the league and that was great, but i was in my mid twenties when big joe was at the club and loved every minute!!. I was thinking about it this morning and was walking round with a stupid grin on my face.i was gutted when he left.

 

[edge]

Totally agree mate, people always say "you wouldnt want it like it was in the 90's" I look at the mid 90's under big joe as my favourite. I was 14 when we last won the league and that was great, but i was in my mid twenties when big joe was at the club and loved every minute!!. I was thinking about it this morning and was walking round with a stupid grin on my face.i was gutted when he left.

was thinking about it before the spurs semi final, they were the team of the moment and we hammerd them, fast forward to now spurs team of the moment now ,do you think we could beat spurs in a semi under moyes? not to sure myself

 

[Blue Cheese]

good post mate,

He's stabilised us that is all nothing more nothing less. keep the faith football has been around a long time we are just in a barren spell. like someone said the money has made things more and more difficult to compete but nothing to say in future times our fortunes will change and success will be back on our doorstep.

It's a shame his time at the club is judged on "being better than we were in the 90's", I don't really care how bad we were in the 90's even then with the crap we had playing for us I still expected a fight for some kind of silverware and that will never change.

This club stands proud and deserves success, I await the day it returns.

 

[blueblue]

Good post.
The problem for so many Evertonians is that David Moyes has become part of the furniture at Everton.It is hard to imagine the club without him,moreso for younger supporters.This is down to the good work done by David Moyes for the club.

I remember Harry Catterick and everybody else since then,so I known that some changes are good,some are bad.

Ultimately I think this is a case of the manager leaving the club(or staying as a last resort) rather than being sacked.
I think David Moyes is now going through the motions at Everton rather than having a passion that he had previously.
I think he realises the fire in his belly is gone and wants to get it back somewhere else.

 

[Stend]

Good post.
The problem for so many Evertonians is that David Moyes has become part of the furniture at Everton.It is hard to imagine the club without him,moreso for younger supporters.This is down to the good work done by David Moyes for the club.

I remember Harry Catterick and everybody else since then,so I known that some changes are good,some are bad.

Ultimately I think this is a case of the manager leaving the club(or staying as a last resort) rather than being sacked.
I think David Moyes is now going through the motions at Everton rather than having a passion that he had previously.
I think he realises the fire in his belly is gone and wants to get it back somewhere else.

I don't agree with the bold mate. This season he had every opportunity to crack on. We sat in the top 4 for 4 months. He has arguably the best squad available that he's ever had. Yet he's relied on tight bit games in 4-5-1 situations. He can't go above and beyond. His caution keeps games at 1-1, 0-0, 2-1 and that where we have suffered.

He's mismanaged players for me this season:

John Heitinga - Player of the season last year and dropped without any real reason other than he favour Jagielka and a left sided centr half.

Naismith - played out of position and turned into the devil. Hated amongst fans, whilst never being given an opportunity in the role that suits him.

Jelavic - played infront of a static Fellaini who offers him no movement or creativity so has to run the channels to find the ball.

Barkley - thrown into the oblivion when really he should have been used as a direct replacement for a tyring Osman at latter stages of games and now towards the end of the season.

For me he has been the downfall this season. Some of his decisions have left us the way we are. A massive one was the inclusion of Neville in the QF last weekend.

For me he will never change. He will never know how to go above and beyond, even with the likes of Mirallas and Jelavic in the team he reverts to 4-5-1. Let's all be honest the time we finished 4th was due mainly to abit of luck. Ability to nick a goal and defende staunchly. It wasn't great to watch and since then it hasn't changed much except we've gained better calibre players.