He’s got 2 goals this season, would we consider 10 to be a decent return this year?
what do the doom mongers (I’m on the fence after having been a firm supporter when he signed) think the acceptable return this year would be?
I'm not bothered about goals; I'm bothered about performance.
Niasse got nine goals on year yet he was still pure manure.
Indeed, and for all his sulk he does at least keep going. I think he’ll get 12-15 goals this season, possibly more if DCL has a lot of time out.
All depends on gametime, hes got about 15mins in the league played as a target man and a right sided forward, league cup two goals as a target man.
If we discount the 10minute cameos + judge him on 15mins+ appearances then id be happy with a goal every 3 games.
Im hopeful he will reach 12 this season, 10 to go.
Of course. I mean Nkondou did very well last night, but if we'd paid £25m for him people would be highlighting concerns over his defending. Or probably getting irate he's not starting and he's another dud or whatever. In a round about way that does add pressure.
Whereas if Kean was 250k, we'd be saying, crikey that lad is a ruthless finisher isn't he? Get him in the box and he will score. Give him 6 months to round his game off and we will have a starter there.
totally this. If you take away the fees and compare him now to calvert-lewin at 20, we'd all be saying kean looks like he can make it here whereas calvert-lewin doesn't look like he'll ever be a goalscorer. One cost £1.5m and the other £25m so that seems to totally go out of the window, there's a chasm of difference between where kean's at and where DCL was at at the same age, in my opinion. He's been a little unlucky that he's playing the only position where those ahead of fully consistent and never injured.
Any other position, we've seen it with holgate and davies, they're getting plenty of gametime because of the options ahead of them have been performing poorly. It takes time, view him as a 20 year old who came through the youth and we'd think he's coming along alright, he's scored the same amount this season already as last season, he's just got to take his chances when they come like last night and he'll get more and more gametime. At least he's played a part in every game this season too, which for me is positive.
I agree with all of that mate. Kean is a long way ahead of where Dom was at the same age.
See I see differently mate, you can work on the premise of cheap footballers or expensive footballers at the end of the day there are just footballers. To me it doesn’t really matter how much they came for. That’s from a footballing perspective.
I think we are all presuming what the expectation of the club was around signing him, then we project our own expectation. It’s silly to cut your losses after a year when he hasn’t banged in 20 a season, at 20. I don’t agree with many’s assessment of him, I think he’s one of the most naturally talented, dangerous and explosive players we have. His goal for opportunity is quite impressive and he’s a baby in footballing terms. For me he often comes on and looks more impactful and dangerous sometimes then Richarlison or DCL. He’s 20, he ticks a hell of a lot of boxes for me. Seems to me people want him to be 23-25 now and bang them in, Ive never expected that from him, it’s not what he was before he arrived.
Away from football, you are a looking at the deal. 20 odd million. The game is a simple one, we’re trying to turn 20 mill into, 80-100 mill. You don’t get there without patience or developing a player it’s that simple. I think you can’t look at Moise in isolation either how much has his deal and competition brought on DCL and Richarlison development, both kicked on hugely since he signed. That’s competition, the three of them are in a fight. All three appreciating and developing and getting better. I don’t see the beef to be honest. We are in a really healthy place with all three. With plenty of headroom in the development with the three of them.
All three will go on to be top players making us 100s of millions in the process in my opinion. Three quality players, I have a sneaky suspicion Moise is actually the more naturally talented of the three. That won’t be the popular group think, but ill back my judgement.
Doesnt matter what we pay for players under 21. What matters ie what their values will grow to.
DCL £1.5mil and were reading about £80mil valuations which will increase with England caps and high scoring seasons.
Richarlison £33-50mil and now a global name who we read Barca were after for £100mil+
Kean £22-27mil who probably needs about 15 goals to be valued at something double that amount.
With our team playing as it is and with increased game time he wont be far off that.
Very glad to see the boy score again. That will boost his confidence surely. He looks like he's playing under too much pressure for me and that's why he also doesn't look to be enjoying himself.
I think there is an excellent player in there and I have this nagging feeling that if we let him go he will go on to even greater things.
I am in the camp of putting an arm round him, make him feel wanted, less pressured and persuade him his future is here.
Maybe try and get him some more minutes? Start a few games?
He is scoring more now and so he's not in the Sandro type scenario where there is nothing coming back from him so I say give him more time.
Agreed but i think its a balance. If we were 3-0 up at half time last night he would have probably come on and got on the end of Nkounkous crosses...may have scored more from the start also.
He may also be brilliant at running onto James' passes and score as well.
But we need to go with DCL at this moment because hes slotted 4 in 2 premier league games.
Over the season he'll probably be able to rotate in/out especially over Xmas.
I don't think that's a remotely controversial view to be honest. A year ago everybody would have said Kean was the most talented of the three, he was meant to be a global superstar. It's hardly backing the outsider when you're saying a £27m full Italian international bought from Juventus might be more talented than a £1.5m buy from Sheffield United. I've said before, Kean is clearly talented; it's not a case of not being able to recognise that, it's just a case of weighing up whether he is going to produce enough during his time with us. Hopefully the answer is yes, and if he keeps scoring then nobody will even be asking the question.
I don't think Ancelotti currently sees him as an option to play up front in competitive games, which is a real problem. I might be wrong, but the fact is he's only started 3 times in our last 19 games, and in a game last night where every other possible outfield starter was rotated, we decided to keep the 2 strikers in rather than give him a go. I also thought it was telling that he was brought on literally as soon as we had a 2 goal cushion, as if even bringing him on when one up was too much of a gamble. We can say we don't know because we don't work for the club, but i'd be pretty confident in saying that wasn't the expectation when we signed him and made a massive fuss about it.
I think you're looking at the price thing quite simplistically. Yes they're just players, but we don't have infinite resources, so how much players cost is relevant, because it affects what we can do elsewhere in the squad. If Kean had cost £500k from Ascoli and was being paid £10k a week then we'd have £26.5m and £40/50k a week to put towards a new keeper/centre half/right back etc, so it's a bit silly to say it doesn't matter truth be told.
If we had signed Reinier for £30mil as we were rumoured to be interested in doing before Real snapped him up would you then be demanding an instant impact?
Hypothetically lets say we went and signed a defensive midfielder for £22mil who was 19. He probably isnt getting in the side over Allan but in 2-3 years he may well push Allan out.
Were only 12 months in...
