2020/21 Moise Kean

[BigDuncTributeBand]

Didn’t look too happy when he scored last night...frustrated young lad right there!

 

[Neiler]

....if you invest £25m on a full Italian International it would surely be lavish if he was recruited for time with the U23s.

Im thinking of Omaur Niasse, who occasionally plied his trade there mate.

I think the fee is part of the problem mate, if we signed him Ascoli for 500k, we would all be saying what a great prospect he is. Are we guilty of judging the player or the fee.

 

[Neiler]

@Neiler @Eggs

When Richarlison was 20 he joined Watford as a left winger and then a left midfielder. Likewise DCL at 20 was getting abused on this forum every game. Kean is only 20.

He has been here a year and i think alot of people expect him to be Lukaku or DCL or have fancy tricks or brazilian ball control because or his image and fee.

I dont see that at all. Ive said this before Ancelotti mentioned it about DCL, Kean to me looks like a poacher in the mould of the Inzaghi brothers. The goal he scored last night was an example of where he positions himself + if he had been given the opportunity of receiving those earlier Nkounkou crosses...or indeed having James feeding him i imagine he would have scored more goals this season.

I wonder why Ancelotti is trying him as a lone forward or on the right (where hes been good for italy u21) and not as a poacher in a partnership. The conclusion ive come to is that hes trying to mould Kean and improve his all round game. The same as DCL has become a good all rounder.

Does this take half a season with a lockdown in the middle? Could it take a very loose preseason? I dont believe it can.

My guess is that from now till January we will begin to see Kean improve. Not with 30 yarders or ball juggling but with positioning inside the box and also his hold up play.

Im excited to see him develop. If he is sold now or Jan / next summer then fair enough, clearly Ancelotti has made a decision but if he isnt then we should all be eagerly celebrating his goals rather than seeing another 72 pages of mostly negativity.

Im really excited to see him develop as well mate, I think he’s one of the most exciting and naturally raw talented players we have.

If we can’t develop players like Moise, our model is doomed to fail.

 

[buskwhi2]

It's easy to forget hes only 20 years old!

Bags of talent. He just needs to apply himself. Hopefully a world class manager and training with quality professionals will do the job.

 

[Lanolin]

Im thinking of Omaur Niasse, who occasionally plied his trade there mate.

I think the fee is part of the problem mate, if we signed him Ascoli for 500k, we would all be saying what a great prospect he is. Are we guilty of judging the player or the fee.

I think the two go hand in hand really, I always think it's a bit weird when people suggest otherwise to be honest. Kean quite clearly wasn't bought to play in the under 23s and develop slowly over the course of 3 or 4 years, it's totally disingenuous to suggest he was. Brands is on record as saying we initially tried to get him on loan, so it's pretty obvious they expected him to hit the ground running. I've said many times, there's no rush to write off his entire career or anything, but the constant suggestion that this was always likely to be how things went is massively wide of the mark. The club definitely expected much more from him than they've had. We paid a lot of money for a player to come in and make an impact, it's a totally different situation to taking a punt on a player and seeing if it comes good in the long run.

 

[jamieni]

I think the two go hand in hand really, I always think it's a bit weird when people suggest otherwise to be honest. Kean quite clearly wasn't bought to play in the under 23s and develop slowly over the course of 3 or 4 years, it's totally disingenuous to suggest he was. Brands is on record as saying we initially tried to get him on loan, so it's pretty obvious they expected him to hit the ground running. I've said many times, there's no rush to write off his entire career or anything, but the constant suggestion that this was always likely to be how things went is massively wide of the mark. The club definitely expected much more from him than they've had. We paid a lot of money for a player to come in and make an impact, it's a totally different situation to taking a punt on a player and seeing if it comes good in the long run.

I’d agree with this. He was clearly bought with the expectation he’d come straight into the first team setup and vie with DCL for the starting spot up front.

I don’t deny he has talent but he’s looked very very raw at times. From his perspective, as a starting Italian international, I’m sure he’s not happy coming off the bench in midweek cup games and getting 5 mins here and there in the first team.

 

[hagen1978]

Of we should buy young players like moise, we need to have some patience. Not everybody is world beaters at 20 years old.

 

[Paul Rideout]

He’s got 2 goals this season, would we consider 10 to be a decent return this year?

what do the doom mongers (I’m on the fence after having been a firm supporter when he signed) think the acceptable return this year would be?

 

[CielosGrises]

Still feel there is a potential quality player there - but he's a bit grumpy isn't he. Would be daft to sell him at a loss and at this point we'd obv need a replacement.

 

[Tubey]

He’s got 2 goals this season, would we consider 10 to be a decent return this year?

what do the doom mongers (I’m on the fence after having been a firm supporter when he signed) think the acceptable return this year would be?

I'm not bothered about goals; I'm bothered about performance.

Niasse got nine goals on year yet he was still pure manure.

 

[tsubaki]

Of we should buy young players like moise, we need to have some patience. Not everybody is world beaters at 20 years old.

Indeed, and for all his sulk he does at least keep going. I think he’ll get 12-15 goals this season, possibly more if DCL has a lot of time out.

 

[catcherintherye]

I think the two go hand in hand really, I always think it's a bit weird when people suggest otherwise to be honest. Kean quite clearly wasn't bought to play in the under 23s and develop slowly over the course of 3 or 4 years, it's totally disingenuous to suggest he was. Brands is on record as saying we initially tried to get him on loan, so it's pretty obvious they expected him to hit the ground running. I've said many times, there's no rush to write off his entire career or anything, but the constant suggestion that this was always likely to be how things went is massively wide of the mark. The club definitely expected much more from him than they've had. We paid a lot of money for a player to come in and make an impact, it's a totally different situation to taking a punt on a player and seeing if it comes good in the long run.

Thats all true. He was never a punt. I'd go as far as to say Silva/Brands thought he'd take Calvery Lewin's place as number 1 striker.

However I think the broader point is, that price tags do shift perceptions quite markedly on a player. In a way they should as well, you should expect a lot more from a player who cost 30y than one who cost y (and similar ratio's with wages). That being said, I do think at times the performance is often judged through that prism. A player could play identical games, and if he cost 30y he'd have played terrible and if he cost y he would have played really well.

It's probably why it's sensible for the club to negotiate hard and get prices down, if nothing else it can help lower expectation a bit and give the player a chance.

As a final aside, Kean has been underwhelming. Everton, with our turnover cannot be throwing £25+m on strikers and not having a return. I do think there is talent there though and both can be true simultaneously.

 

[jamieni]

Still feel there is a potential quality player there - but he's a bit grumpy isn't he. Would be daft to sell him at a loss and at this point we'd obv need a replacement.

At this stage in the window I don’t see him going anywhere. I suspect there is deffo something in him wanting to go back to Juve but doubt we’ll let him go without a replacement.

 

[catcherintherye]

I'm not bothered about goals; I'm bothered about performance.

Niasse got nine goals on year yet he was still pure manure.

How would you measure performance then mate?

 

[jamieni]

Thats all true. He was never a punt. I'd go as far as to say Silva/Brands thought he'd take Calvery Lewin's place as number 1 striker.

However I think the broader point is, that price tags do shift perceptions quite markedly on a player. In a way they should as well, you should expect a lot more from a player who cost 30y than one who cost y (and similar ratio's with wages). That being said, I do think at times the performance is often judged through that prism. A player could play identical games, and if he cost 30y he'd have played terrible and if he cost y he would have played really well.

It's probably why it's sensible for the club to negotiate hard and get prices down, if nothing else it can help lower expectation a bit and give the player a chance.

As a final aside, Kean has been underwhelming. Everton, with our turnover cannot be throwing £25+m on strikers and not having a return. I do think there is talent there though and both can be true simultaneously.

Agree to a large extent. If we’d paid a few million for him we’d probably all be more patient. The signing was feted as a coup at the time which has added a lot of pressure.