Martinez Out: Post Stoke poll

[paulbefc]

*Adds "doesn't go the game" to list of cheap, daft and irrelevant words and phrases being used in preference to counter points in this "debate" to devalue opinions*.

 

[ijjysmith]

*Adds "doesn't go the game" to list of cheap, daft and irrelevant words and phrases being used in preference to counter points in this "debate" to devalue opinions*.

Oh god. Who has said this?

 

[davek]

This isn't just a few game dip this has been a whole season. What damage has been or is going to be done by letting him carry on. Unless it can be guaranteed that this season is a one off (which it can't) and no damage done (we won't know until it's too late) then how can he be given more time? He has to judged on this season and this season alone.

That's convenient isn't it?

I choose to weigh up the WHOLE evidence myself and then come to a conclusion. Maybe that's just me being 'unreasonable'?

 

[Bobbys Shoe Polish]

That's convenient isn't it?

I choose to weigh up the WHOLE evidence myself and then come to a conclusion. Maybe that's just me being 'unreasonable'?

Davek i'm with you on this one (for a change). I'm just even doubting myself for sticking by Martinez though, the man has history of relegation, and that's something that should be taken very seriously. Just picture that for a minute, he has history of losing game by game consistently and fighting relegation, season after season.

 

[willo30]

That's convenient isn't it?

I choose to weigh up the WHOLE evidence myself and then come to a conclusion. Maybe that's just me being 'unreasonable'?

It's easy to say the WHOLE evidence as that is the only way your argument holds any weight at all.

I choose to look at the actual evidence which is he had £50mil worth of players added to the squad he inherited to get us 72pts last season. Looking at it that way then maybe 9 more points than the previous season was quite crap really. Maybe that's just me being 'unreasonable'?

 

[davek]

Davek i'm with you on this one (for a change). I'm just even doubting myself for sticking by Martinez though, the man has history of relegation, and that's something that should be taken very seriously. Just picture that for a minute, he has history of losing game by game consistently and fighting relegation, season after season.

I agree. And that's how the usual suspects on here have been able to get traction for their scaremongering: they're playing on that fear.

In reality rhough that possibility has been getting closed down with each passing week. We'll likely need 34 points maximum from 10 games. It's almost impossible us not getting that.

 

[Ihaters]

Davek i'm with you on this one (for a change). I'm just even doubting myself for sticking by Martinez though, the man has history of relegation, and that's something that should be taken very seriously. Just picture that for a minute, he has history of losing game by game consistently and fighting relegation, season after season.

The financial restraints imposed on him were devastating tbf.
He also won a cup..

But....

I don't think getting relegated or winning a cup at another team necessary has any correlation to events that will happen at a new club.

 

[davek]

It's easy to say the WHOLE evidence as that is the only way your argument holds any weight at all.

I choose to look at the actual evidence which is he had £50mil worth of players added to the squad he inherited to get us 72pts last season. Looking at it that way then maybe 9 more points than the previous season was quite crap really. Maybe that's just me being 'unreasonable'?

All but £33M of which was clawed back in sales.

Look, it's ridiculous trying to underplay that achievement of 72 points. It's churlish to deny that it was a great season full of good football and wins.

Calling it 'crap' just wont fly I'm afraid.

 

[paulbefc]

I agree bill won't sack him whatever happens.
What makes you think he will change things in the summer as he looks so lost now.
Bearing in mind we don't have much money.
I know the tv money is there but transfer fees have also gone stupid.

The fact that we started off the slowly last season, with people saying we'd been figured out and how it was going to be a long, hard season, then Martinez got his players in (with a negative spend) and we sorted ourselves out. Among a huge amount of other factors that could have caused this season's problems, I think not adding much to what we had already last summer has seen us become a bit "stale" and predictable this season, exacerbated by things like important players under-performing (Jags, Baines etc)/losing it (Distin, Barry).

Martinez is not a fan of spending money in January, as he doesn't think he'll get value for money, as he's said on more than one occasion, so he has left it to the summer. I'm not going to knock him for that as we are relatively skint as you say.

I think there were also a few factors that were either out of our control/not tactical that snuffed this season out before it even started. For example, I would think it's incredibly unlikely we'll suffer an injury crisis like we did this season where by Christmas, literally everyone in the first XI and half the subs had had a notable lay-off. I also think it's hugely unlikely we'll have such a relaxed pre-season this time round. Surely he'll have learnt from that. Not suffering two last minute equalisers, followed by a 6-3 in our first 3 games might help too.

I don't get why the idea of Martinez doing some positive transfer business in the summer, rejuvenating the squad and doing pre-season more like 2013 is seen as such a mental idea and that it won't have any effect even if it did happen, because tactics.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

All I'm reading there ^^^ is that you accept a dip would happen and that we couldn't stay at that high from last season, but that regardless of the overhleming probability we'll be ok you think it's acceptable that our manager should face the sack.

That's an absurd position.

...whereby you seem to be suggesting it's all acceptable because he'll have 'next season' thus it's somehow absurd to raise questions about this one?

It isn't.

 

[davek]

...whereby you seem to be suggesting it's all acceptable because he'll have 'next season' thus it's somehow absurd to raise questions about this one?

It isn't.

Questions, yes; demanding he be sacked, no.

 

[willo30]

All but £33M of which was clawed back in sales.

Look, it's ridiculous trying to underplay that achievement of 72 points. It's churlish to deny that it was a great season full of good football and wins.

Calling it 'crap' just wont fly I'm afraid.

The £50m was still spent on players to make us better. I don't care who he got rid of. The crap gesture was more in jest so I could use your 'unreasonable' quote.

Serious question though, if he stays on next season then what would be deemed a success? 40pts, 50pts, 60+pts or just a better style? I think he won't get much to spend and most of this squad will be his core squad next season. Have we got the players to do what he wants or does he adapt a style to suit the players.

 

[Ihaters]

I agree. And that's how the usual suspects on here have been able to get traction for their scaremongering: they're playing on that fear.

In reality rhough that possibility has been getting closed down with each passing week. We'll likely need 34 points maximum from 10 games. It's almost impossible us not getting that.

We are on course for getting 10 points or less during that time and I don't know where you get that figure of 34 points from, the bottom teams will pick up more points as they start to fight for their lives, i'd be very surprised if 34 got us clear.

And being concerned isn't scaremongering, take your head out the sand mate, look at our form, we are in trouble right now and none of his tiny tweaks to plan A is working. This is regardless of what he did last season. I'm with you in a way...

Martinez in.. but do something boss.. please.. we are abysmal!!.. truly, truly abysmal.

I like him, he tells porkies, praises everything to the point its just irritating, plays the same system, has his favourites and does 90% of the things Moyes did just not as well, and plays an equally boring brand of football... but I like him, and I like his stubbornness and willingness to take flak over his principles..

This is because he believes in his project, and I still do, even though its not working right now, he needs to put the current plan to one side for a few games, get us out the brown stuff, pick it back up and do it better imo.

 

[davek]

The £50m was still spent on players to make us better. I don't care who he got rid of. The crap gesture was more in jest so I could use your 'unreasonable' quote.

Serious question though, if he stays on next season then what would be deemed a success? 40pts, 50pts, 60+pts or just a better style? I think he won't get much to spend and most of this squad will be his core squad next season. Have we got the players to do what he wants or does he adapt a style to suit the players.

Has to get us top half and 60 points or just short of it at worst. That is the set standard here. Last season was white hot pace and maybe wont be repeated again for a decade or more.

 

[davek]

We are on course for getting 10 points or less during that time and I don't know where you get that figure of 34 points from, the bottom teams will pick up more points as they start to fight for their lives, i'd be very surprised if 34 got us clear.

And being concerned isn't scaremongering, take your head out the sand mate, look at our form, we are in trouble right now and none of his tiny tweaks to plan A is working. This is regardless of what he did last season. I'm with you in a way...

Martinez in.. but do something boss.. please.. we are abysmal!!.. truly, truly abysmal.

I like him, he tells porkies, praises everything to the point its just irritating, plays the same system, has his favourites and does 90% of the things Moyes did just not as well, and plays an equally boring brand of football... but I like him, and I like his stubbornness and willingness to take flak over his principles..

This is because he believes in his project, and I still do, even though its not working right now, he needs to put the current plan to one side for a few games, get us out the brown stuff, pick it back up and do it better imo.

No way Leicester have a dog in this fight...they are just gone. The other two are on 22 points and to think they can get 60% of the total they have run up right now in the closing games of the season is close to being the stuff of fantasy....especially with the teams they have to face still.


As for Martinez's style: he was Mr Positive last season...giving a breath of fresh air to the whole club. The way he's taken is determined by how well or badly we do.