Martínez is transforming Everton

[steken1]

For most of my adult life Moyles was in charge, I hoped for the best in every derby but deep down I knew how they'd go.

I'm excited as fcuk for next week with Bobby in Charge.

You won't see us shiit ourselves in a derby on his watch.

 

[Khalekan]

Correct.

And I can't wait for the game.

 

[Ihaters]

Im also pleased we have Martinez, I think Moyes got a bit stale and lets face it, he never gave a sh1t about Everton, it was all about Moyes, it appears as tho Bobby is more willing to embrace what being an Evertonian means, I guess we find out next week.

Agree with that, he's looking like a great replacement.
I am glad we had Moyes for all he did for us and the setup he handed over, but I am just as made up with the way Martinez is going about things, few tweaks here and there and we could be on to a winner.

 

[dannyboy]

For most of my adult life Moyles was in charge, I hoped for the best in every derby but deep down I knew how they'd go.

I'm excited as fcuk for next week with Bobby in Charge.

You won't see us shiit ourselves in a derby on his watch.

I think the problem has always been us playing the occasion rather than the game. Our players always seem so tense, and likewise the fans tbh. Be good to see a new approach to these matches.

 

[Jeff Jones]

i doubt we will. He has already shown a ruthless side by selling players to fund players arriving. Something Moyes seemed incapable and unwilling to do.

How do you make that out? I think one thing we all agree on is that he had to spend to buy.

He may not have been happy to sell Rooney and he certainly wasn't happy about selling Lescott, but he did.

 

[billycopper]

I think the problem has always been us playing the occasion rather than the game. Our players always seem so tense, and likewise the fans tbh. Be good to see a new approach to these matches.

We've been too afraid of losing and we haven't wanted the win enough. They nearly always have the initiative. When we do go at them we give them problems.

If they play three centre backs, it was highlighted against Arsenal that they don't know whether to mark zonally or to take the man and they struggle to hold a line. The full backs both push on so, if you can draw the central defender over to double up in the channel, it leaves only one defender to cover the rest of the pitch. In that case, we can take advantage of it by pushing someone forward to create a 2 v 1.

They have some injury concerns which might work in our favour too.

 

[dannyboy]

We've been too afraid of losing and we haven't wanted the win enough. They nearly always have the initiative. When we do go at them we give them problems.

If they play three centre backs, it was highlighted against Arsenal that they don't know whether to mark zonally or to take the man and they struggle to hold a line. The full backs both push on so, if you can draw the central defender over to double up in the channel, it leaves only one defender to cover the rest of the pitch. In that case, we can take advantage of it by pushing someone forward to create a 2 v 1.

They have some injury concerns which might work in our favour too.

I don't even think it's that really, there's been plenty of times under Moyes where we've been too open against them, especially at Goodison. We invest so much energy and importance on this game that it backfires on us. The pressure becomes too much.

I think it's also important to remember that for the past decade they've had a really good team and for the most part it's been better than ours.

 

[billycopper]

I don't even think it's that really, there's been plenty of times under Moyes where we've been too open against them, especially at Goodison. We invest so much energy and importance on this game that it backfires on us. The pressure becomes too much.

I think it's also important to remember that for the past decade they've had a really good team and for the most part it's been better than ours.

I'm not sure about that. For a long time they've been a two man team with Torres/Suarez and Gerrard. I think that they now have better quality (Sturridge, Coutinho, Moses etc) and that the young players that they have coming through are much stronger.

2012/13 2-2 (H), 0-0 (A) They were fortunate with a Baines og.
2011/12 0-2 (H), 0-3 (A) Rodwell was sent off after 23 mins at Goodison and Moyes rotated at Anfield.
2010/11 2-0 (H), 2-2 (A) They equalised via a penalty.
2009/10 0-2 (H), 0-1 (A) Yobo scored an oggie at our place.
2008/9 0-2 (H), 1-1 (A) Cahill sent off at Goodison after 80 mins.
2007/8 1-2 (H), 0-1 (A) Hibbert and Neville sent off at home. Kuyt scored both pens.
2006/7 3-0 (H), 0-0 (A)
2005/6 1-3 (H), 1-3 (A) Neville and Arteta sent off at home. Neville og and VdM sent off away.
2004/5 1-0 (H), 1-2 (A)
2003/4 0-3 (H), 0-0 (A)

I think the only time where they haven't been helped by us putting the ball in our own net or going for an early bath was back in 2003/4 when Michael Owen in his prime was the difference. We had Steve Simonsen in goal, Pistone at right back and a midfield of Watson, Unsworth, Pembridge and Linderoth!

The pattern has tended to be that we play the Goodison derby first and suffer some sort of ill fate which gifts them an ill-gotten share of the points. We then go to Anfield determined that they won't do the double over us and play out quite a timid match by comparison. Half of the games at their place have ended in a draw.

 

[dannyboy]

I'm not sure about that. For a long time they've been a two man team with Torres/Suarez and Gerrard. I think that they now have better quality (Sturridge, Coutinho, Moses etc) and that the young players that they have coming through are much stronger.

2012/13 2-2 (H), 0-0 (A) They were fortunate with a Baines og.
2011/12 0-2 (H), 0-3 (A) Rodwell was sent off after 23 mins at Goodison and Moyes rotated at Anfield.
2010/11 2-0 (H), 2-2 (A) They equalised via a penalty.
2009/10 0-2 (H), 0-1 (A) Yobo scored an oggie at our place.
2008/9 0-2 (H), 1-1 (A) Cahill sent off at Goodison after 80 mins.
2007/8 1-2 (H), 0-1 (A) Hibbert and Neville sent off at home. Kuyt scored both pens.
2006/7 3-0 (H), 0-0 (A)
2005/6 1-3 (H), 1-3 (A) Neville and Arteta sent off at home. Neville og and VdM sent off away.
2004/5 1-0 (H), 1-2 (A)
2003/4 0-3 (H), 0-0 (A)

I think the only time where they haven't been helped by us putting the ball in our own net or going for an early bath was back in 2003/4 when Michael Owen in his prime was the difference. We had Steve Simonsen in goal, Pistone at right back and a midfield of Watson, Unsworth, Pembridge and Linderoth!

The pattern has tended to be that we play the Goodison derby first and suffer some sort of ill fate which gifts them an ill-gotten share of the points. We then go to Anfield determined that they won't do the double over us and play out quite a timid match by comparison. Half of the games at their place have ended in a draw.

Maybe post Benitez they've dropped off a little but whilst he was there they had a really good team, and it was better than ours by any definition.

We know it was always Moyes style to go with a defensive first approach at the likes of Anfield. I think if we'd gone for it a bit more we'd have probably ended up with 1 or 2 wins but more defeats. Having said that, there's been a few times that they've gone in front and then conspired to destroy the game by kicking us off the park. Not a slight on them, I'd love us to do that next week if it results in 3 points.

With regards to games against them at Goodison I agree we've been desperately unlucky at times. Let's hope it means we're due some.

 

[Christiffa25]

Agreed.

Especially in the Rafael era they had easily the better team which was competing in the CL year on year, even winning it!

Most deffinately evened out over the last few years. I think in that period and now we are on very simlar levels to each other. I'd say they have a slight advantage due to Brenda having an extra year over Roberto to get his philosophy accross.

If only moyes then or Roberto now had available the type of funds that lot have spent over the years, all the stats, win/lose ratio's etc would look very different.

 

[blue61]

It's all about mentality, apart from a brief spell in the mid eighties when we had the belief that we could beat them, since the early seventies, they go into derbies expecting to win, whereas we go in hoping to win. Until we shake off this inferiority complex, the frustration this brings will more than often turn things against us. This also applies to playing the top teams away from home and is Martinez's biggest task at the club by far.

 

[Christiffa25]

It's all about mentality, apart from a brief spell in the mid eighties when we had the belief that we could beat them, since the early seventies, they go into derbies expecting to win, whereas we go in hoping to win. Until we shake off this inferiority complex, the frustration this brings will more than often turn things against us. This also applies to playing the top teams away from home and is Martinez's biggest task at the club by far.

We have always buckled under pressure or perhaps more so expectancy!

I'd like to think that should be changing with the likes of baines jags and Coleman becoming experienced internationals, the likes of Miralass, Delefoe, Barkley being the winning type mentality and the likes of lakaku, Barry etc being part of wining teams.

The results in the 90's were nothing more than the underdogs giving 100% and making the favourites underperform.
Nowadays were that simlar of teams, it's like a chess game!

 

[ijjysmith]

Philosophy is a horrendous word when combined with football.

 

[billycopper]

Maybe post Benitez they've dropped off a little but whilst he was there they had a really good team, and it was better than ours by any definition.

We know it was always Moyes style to go with a defensive first approach at the likes of Anfield. I think if we'd gone for it a bit more we'd have probably ended up with 1 or 2 wins but more defeats. Having said that, there's been a few times that they've gone in front and then conspired to destroy the game by kicking us off the park. Not a slight on them, I'd love us to do that next week if it results in 3 points.

With regards to games against them at Goodison I agree we've been desperately unlucky at times. Let's hope it means we're due some.

Even the side that won the CL wasn't that great. Gerrard was arguably one of the best players in the world at that stage but, Alonso aside, they didn't have an awful lot more quality. The rest of the starting eleven that day was Dudek, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Traore, Luis Garcia, Riise, Kewell and Baros. They had Carson, Josemi, Biscan, Cisse, Smicer, Nunez and Hamann on the bench.

Our team back in 2005 was Martyn, Hibbert, Weir, Yobo, Watson, Kilbane, Carsley, Arteta, Cahill, Ferguson, Bent. Subs: Wright, Osman, Beattie, McFadden, Vaughan.

How many of our players would have got into their side? Maybe Martyn (Dudek), Arteta (Luis Garcia), Cahill (Kewell) and Ferguson (Baros). Our regular left back, Pistone, probably would have pushed Traore too. So it was pretty even really.

I think that they have had the self-belief and the tactical know-how to get one over than us more often than not and they're perceived as puritans, while we're thought of as 'dogs of war', so referees have possibly been over-protective towards them. Gerrard has dragged them through a lot of games too where we might otherwise have got a more positive result.

 

[toffee matt]

If we gave a player the job off running after the ref consistently for 90 minutes like gerrard does for them, we'd get better derby results.