2020/21 Marcel Brands

[BlueToff]

The answer is to scrap the position of DoF.

It's been a disaster.

If Moshiri is a businessman and he creates a post in any other business he owns and it turns out to be an expensive mistake, presumably he'd pull the plug on it and think again?

Why shoud it be any different for football?

Pretty much every successful club works with a DoF in some capacity.

Carlo has worked with a DoF through his entire career.

Man Utd are a ****show without one. Spurs are a bit of a mix - they have Levy but a head of recruitment who also acts similarly to a DoF.

There is a balance to be struck.

I don't blame Brands for our defeat yesterday, and we had a very good window this year. Unfortunately we're still short in some key areas though and he has made some dud signings, albeit ones with youth on their side when they joined so it shouldn't cost us too much.

He's had to deal with tighter purse strings because of what came before him but if we're basing him getting a new deal solely on his dealings/work in isolation, I think the jury's out (that's not just basing it on transfers, I mean in regards to how the football side of the club is run etc).

 

[BlueToff]

So what would you do Dave? Bear in mind Ancelotti doesn’t generally do transfer negotiations

No manager really does, mate. They'll get involved with speaking to the player, maybe, but the discussions themselves will always be through the board and agents

 

[BlueToff]

I am baffled by the lack of right wing/striker cover to be honest. Letting Walcott and Kean go seemed like a risk we didnt need to take both clearly pushed for it but we should have brought in back up. We need a right back too but that can wait at least.

It's not that they left really. I wanted Kean to stay but realistically he wasn't going to save us if Dom and Richarlison got injured or suspended.

It's the fact that those going cleared room in the wage bill and we didn't make a move to fill the gap in the squad.

Our squad is unbalanced in the forward area even after all the work this last window.

He's seemed to leave us one player short every window. This season more than ever was not one to take a needless risk.

 

[davek]

So what would you do Dave? Bear in mind Ancelotti doesn’t generally do transfer negotiations

He does the major ones.

What would I do?

Manager + head scout takes care of the transfers; employ a CEO with football industry experience and scrap the DoF role.

 

[davek]

Pretty much every successful club works with a DoF in some capacity.

Carlo has worked with a DoF through his entire career.

Man Utd are a ****show without one. Spurs are a bit of a mix - they have Levy but a head of recruitment who also acts similarly to a DoF.

There is a balance to be struck.

I don't blame Brands for our defeat yesterday, and we had a very good window this year. Unfortunately we're still short in some key areas though and he has made some dud signings, albeit ones with youth on their side when they joined so it shouldn't cost us too much.

He's had to deal with tighter purse strings because of what came before him but if we're basing him getting a new deal solely on his dealings/work in isolation, I think the jury's out (that's not just basing it on transfers, I mean in regards to how the football side of the club is run etc).

Forget 'every successful club' (which is an enormous reach in any case).

What has worked well for us in the past before the DoF calamity? Manager + scouts + club secretary/hands on chairman operating in the transfer market and securing deals. But mostly a manager who knows what players he wants...which is to say, every single manager there is out there wants that too.

DoF is an unecessary tier of bureacracy. It's been proven beyond doubt it fails at Everton. And the club have spent half a billion finding that out.

Cut the losses, and cut the post.

 

[BlueToff]

Forget 'every successful club' (which is an enormous reach in any case).

What has worked well for us in the past before the DoF calamity? Manager + scouts + club secretary/hands on chairman operating in the transfer market and securing deals. But mostly a manager who knows what players he wants...which is to say, every single manager there is out there wants that too.

DoF is an unecessary tier of bureacracy. It's been proven beyond doubt it fails at Everton. And the club have spent half a billion finding that out.

Cut the losses, and cut the post.

I said pretty much.

Liverpool have a DoF. Man City have a DoF. Arsenal have a DoF. Chelsea have a DoF. Every club in Europe just about has one.

It's the way it's gone. There's only this daft narrative in our country that it doesn't work.

If we cut the post, then there needs to be someone working with Ancelotti on our transfers. Who do you suggest that is? Keep in mind that he has always worked with a director, in one form or the other, in his career.

 

[davek]

I said pretty much.

Liverpool have a DoF. Man City have a DoF. Arsenal have a DoF. Chelsea have a DoF. Every club in Europe just about has one.

It's the way it's gone. There's only this daft narrative in our country that it doesn't work.

If we cut the post, then there needs to be someone working with Ancelotti on our transfers. Who do you suggest that is? Keep in mind that he has always worked with a director, in one form or the other, in his career.

Wenger never worked with a DoF. He hated the role. United relied on Ferguson + a CEO. Ditto Chelsea under Mourinho/Kenyon. The three most successful clubs and managers in England during the PL period.

I told you what we need to get back to: a manager + head scout. They decide who the players are to come in and get shut of. The bureacracy is taken care of by a club director / CEO.

 

[orly]

Wenger never worked with a DoF. He hated the role. United relied on Ferguson + a CEO. Ditto Chelsea under Mourinho/Kenyon. The three most successful clubs and managers in England during the PL period.

I told you what we need to get back to: a manager + head scout. They decide who the players are to come in and get shut of. The bureacracy is taken care of by a club director / CEO.

A club director of football?

 

[davek]

A club director of football?

No, just any director capable of getting the paperwork over the line. The CEO or owner if need be.

FFS, why do we need a new role at a club to get that type of bureacracy done?

 

[BlueToff]

Wenger never worked with a DoF. He hated the role. United relied on Ferguson + a CEO. Ditto Chelsea under Mourinho/Kenyon. The three most successful clubs and managers in England during the PL period.

I told you what we need to get back to: a manager + head scout. They decide who the players are to come in and get shut of. The bureacracy is taken care of by a club director / CEO.

And football has changed drastically even in the seven years since Fergie retired - heck even in the two since Wenger did we continue to see change. Mourinho was at Chelsea the first time 16 years ago.

If that's the case, fine, at least it's a plan. My point is, Carlo has always worked with a DoF pretty much. So it's not like he's new to the system.

Brands has set up a good scouting network. The one under Martinez was tosh and it all went worse under Walsh.

We'll see what happens. The jury's out for me. I see good things he's done, and bad.

 

[davek]

And football has changed drastically even in the seven years since Fergie retired - heck even in the two since Wenger did we continue to see change. Mourinho was at Chelsea the first time 16 years ago.

If that's the case, fine, at least it's a plan. My point is, Carlo has always worked with a DoF pretty much. So it's not like he's new to the system.

Brands has set up a good scouting network. The one under Martinez was tosh and it all went worse under Walsh.

We'll see what happens. The jury's out for me. I see good things he's done, and bad.

"The jury is still out" for you?

So you're still unsure of the DoF position even after having seen hundreds of millions spent on players like

Klaassen
Bolasie
Sigurdsson
Pickford
Iwobi
Mina
Kean
Delph
Gbamin
Bernard
Williams
Schneiderlin
Sandro
Onyekuru
Vlasic
Tisun
Walcott
Gomes


...because that's the haul of poor quality over-priced player we've seen brought into the club under it.

 

[orly]

No, just any director capable of getting the paperwork over the line. The CEO or owner if need be.

FFS, why do we need a new role at a club to get that type of bureacracy done?

I'd be more than happy for DBB to take over.

 

[BlueToff]

"The jury is still out" for you?

So you're still unsure of the DoF position even after having seen hundreds of millions spent on players like

Klaassen
Bolasie
Sigurdsson
Pickford
Iwobi
Mina
Kean
Delph
Gbamin
Bernard
Williams
Schneiderlin
Sandro
Onyekuru
Vlasic
Tisun
Walcott
Gomes


...because that's the haul of poor quality over-priced player we've seen brought into the club under it.

I'm on about Brands

If you take his signings into account, there's some good and some bad. I've been more concerned that he appears to think we can take risks on certain areas of the squad though, and that it quickly comes back to bite us.

I don't know what the next step is. We'll have to see what the club do. But DoF systems can and do work, whether here or abroad. It's about having the right person in.

Walsh was a glorified scout. Brands has had to clear up his mess but has clearly made mistakes of his own, too.

 

[Toffeelover]

He does the major ones.

What would I do?

Manager + head scout takes care of the transfers; employ a CEO with football industry experience and scrap the DoF role.

How do you know he sorts out the finances of the "big" signings? Please enlighten us.

If it was down to the manager and head scout who sorts out the money? Do you mean like when we had Walsh? Plus a so called CEO as you put it would be just another DoF, by another name.

 

[Toffeelover]

"The jury is still out" for you?

So you're still unsure of the DoF position even after having seen hundreds of millions spent on players like

Klaassen
Bolasie
Sigurdsson
Pickford
Iwobi
Mina
Kean
Delph
Gbamin
Bernard
Williams
Schneiderlin
Sandro
Onyekuru
Vlasic
Tisun
Walcott
Gomes


...because that's the haul of poor quality over-priced player we've seen brought into the club under it.

Clarify for each signing who was the then manager.