Man City Banned From Europe

[gwladysnight]

Now it's clear as to why Usmanov hasn't joined the club. Investment with financial sanctions.

Usmanov joining the Club has no impact though. Moshiri is the Chairman and a major shareholder in USM so any deals with companies owned by USM are already treated as related companies and subject to UEFA's fair value criteria.

The only reason for Usmanov not to come out into the open is because he is fearful of USA / UK sanctions. The 2nd biggest shareholder in USM Andrei Skoch is already on the US oligarch sanctions list. He has transferred his shares in USM to his father, Usmanov has reduced his stake in USM to below the threshold for sanctions to impact USM.

The biggest worry has to be that it was the FBI who smashed the corruption at FIFA. For that reason I think we should do everything above board.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

The worry is that it only takes a security breach or a disgruntled employee and we are facing the kind of punitive sanctions that City are facing. Conspiracies have a horrible habit of unravelling. Personally if he is involved Usmanov comes on board and invests massively in the Stadium and Academy. The Stadium will give us a massive financial uplift in terms of match day revenue. Combine that with being able to attract the best talent in the World at Academy level and Carlo and I don't think we need to cheat.

I've always said Usmanov will never buy into the club as it serves us no good RE FFP. Its better for us if he stays an external figure and provides the funds via external investing/sponsorships which is totally legit in the eyes of FFP.

 

[whiteshadow]

Might be reading this wrong but feels like most people want City to get done for it.

Seems a strange stance to take when you want Usmanov to pump loads of money in to the club while bending the rules to do so.

If City get punished for manipulating the system, there's no way Usmanov will be able to invest without coming under the same scrutiny.

Careful what you wish for ...

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Usmanov joining the Club has no impact though. Moshiri is the Chairman and a major shareholder in USM so any deals with companies owned by USM are already treated as related companies and subject to UEFA's fair value criteria.

The only reason for Usmanov not to come out into the open is because he is fearful of USA / UK sanctions. The 2nd biggest shareholder in USM Andrei Skoch is already on the US oligarch sanctions list. He has transferred his shares in USM to his father, Usmanov has reduced his stake in USM to below the threshold for sanctions to impact USM.

The biggest worry has to be that it was the FBI who smashed the corruption at FIFA. For that reason I think we should do everything above board.

Moshiri only owns about 10% of USM IIRC.
Even if he wanted to he couldn't sign off deals based on that shareholding which is why we'll be fine imo.

I've said for a while these are very smart people and I'll be shocked if they ever get pulled up as they know the loopholes.

Similiar to PSG really - City just got lazy/brazen and were caught out.

 

[gwladysnight]

Was this for the initial offence in 2012?

It looks as if they were very clumsy.

The initial offence wasn't clumsy at all it was about how spending, specifically player contracts pre 2012 impacted on FFP.

This case isn't about that. At the end of every season UEFA inspect every clubs audited accounts. If anything looks untoward then they ask the Club for clarification. UEFA wanted clarification of City's sponsorship deal with Etihad, they also wanted clarification of PSG's deal with Qatar. Whilst PSG co-operated with UEFA and agreed that their commercial deal should be lowered for FFP purposes City did the opposite.

City threatened to hire the best lawyers in the World and tie UEFA up for 10 years.

 

[catcherintherye]

Moshiri only owns about 10% of USM IIRC.
Even if he wanted to he couldn't sign off deals based on that shareholding which is why we'll be fine imo.

I've said for a while these are very smart people and I'll be shocked if they ever get pulled up as they know the loopholes.

Similiar to PSG really - City just got lazy/brazen and were caught out.

That's my reading of the situation too mate. City got complacent and didn't cross their ts. I suspect we will avoid such a mistake.

 

[gwladysnight]

Moshiri only owns about 10% of USM IIRC.
Even if he wanted to he couldn't sign off deals based on that shareholding which is why we'll be fine imo.

I've said for a while these are very smart people and I'll be shocked if they ever get pulled up as they know the loopholes.

Similiar to PSG really - City just got lazy/brazen and were caught out.

The owner of a Club being sponsored by a company that is chaired by the same person is going to raise flags regarding related companies.

 

[number4.]

If City are top 4 and the ban upheld, and let's say Chelsea finished 6th but won the Champions League would 5th still pick up the CL place?

Best off going for 4th though.

Yes - but it would be city's place not Chelsea

This needs highlighting, City havent breached FFP rules, they breached the rules regarding accounting.

Its much worse than a FFP breach, its serious fraud.

This is incorrect, they have done both. they accepted a fine in 2014 (€49 million I think) for FFP breaches in 2012/13. This weeks ban is based in the fact that they have continued to allegedy falsify payments and paperwork around their sponsorship and accounting to hide continued breaches, along with refusing to cooperate with UEFA - hence the more severe punishments

 

[ForeverBlue92]

The owner of a Club being sponsored by a company that is chaired by the same person is going to raise flags regarding related companies.

It will do and its dodgy looking - but knowing and proving are totally different things.

Etihad being essentially state owned is different to USM which is owned primarily by 3 blokes with our owner being the small fry out the three - UEFA would struggle pinning anything underhand on us compared to say City/PSG who are basically state owned themselves.

But saying that even if they did hit us with a say 1 year European ban in 5 years time - if by then we had won a few trophies and maybe even a league title I wouldn't care less lol

People are going on like Man City have been liquidated - at worst they'll be banned for 2 years from the CL and maybe a points deduction or fine - if you offered Man City fans that 15 years ago when they wete fighting relegation and winning sod all they'll have 100% taken that.

 

[number4.]

It will do and its dodgy looking - but knowing and proving are totally different things.

Etihad being essentially state owned is different to USM which is owned primarily by 3 blokes with our owner being the small fry out the three - UEFA would struggle pinning anything underhand on us compared to say City/PSG who are basically state owned themselves.

But saying that even if they did hit us with a say 1 year European ban in 5 years time - if by then we had won a few trophies and maybe even a league title I wouldn't care less lol

People are going on like Man City have been liquidated - at worst they'll be banned for 2 years from the CL and maybe a points deduction or fine - if you offered Man City fans that 15 years ago when they wete fighting relegation and winning sod all they'll have 100% taken that.

Worst case now is if the case is upheld by CAS, which I would guess is 50/50, the FA have every right to throw the book at them, with Maximum punishment being relegation to league two.

I don't think it will happen, but the FA will be keen to make an example of them, not for the FFP breach, but for the burying of the accounts. What will hurt City the most though is the fact that everything they have won over the last 4 years is now tainted in the public's eyes. Abu Dhabi inc, bought city to use it as a lever to promote the success, credibility and Klout of Abu Dhabi and this has brought their reputation into huge doubt.

The role of the club, in the eyes of it's owners, is now dead.

As for stripping titles etc; I can't see the FA touching this, the domino effect would be an absolute Sh*tshow. Teams that lost to them getting relagated by a point, teams missing out on Europe, players not getting contracts because missing out on Europe and wage cuts and job losses due to relegation. They retrospective cases could be endless.

 

[BigDunc1985]

Why do people think Moshiri and the rest, a gaggle of incompetent boobs at the best of times, would know how circumvent FFP better than City? Is there anything about the way Everton has been run since Moshiri slithered in that makes people confident in him being smart at all?

 

[matty1878]

Why do people think Moshiri and the rest, a gaggle of incompetent boobs at the best of times, would know how circumvent FFP better than City? Is there anything about the way Everton has been run since Moshiri slithered in that makes people confident in him being smart at all?

Who says we are? End of the day we haven’t breached it.

 

[BigDunc1985]

Who says we are? End of the day we haven’t breached it.

People posting in here are acting like it's a glorious inevitability.

 

[Nymzee]

Why do people think Moshiri and the rest, a gaggle of incompetent boobs at the best of times, would know how circumvent FFP better than City? Is there anything about the way Everton has been run since Moshiri slithered in that makes people confident in him being smart at all?

Aye it’s not like Moshiri didn’t make billions being a top class accountant and businessman is it...

City’s finances come from being born.

 

[gwladysnight]

It will do and its dodgy looking - but knowing and proving are totally different things.

They don't have to prove anything they just get independent valuers into decide whether sponsorships from related companies represent a fair value. If not they just downgrade the sponsorship for FFP purposes.

Etihad being essentially state owned is different to USM which is owned primarily by 3 blokes with our owner being the small fry out the three - UEFA would struggle pinning anything underhand on us compared to say City/PSG who are basically state owned themselves.

State ownership doesn't really matter. It is about how UEFA treat related sponsorship deals.

But saying that even if they did hit us with a say 1 year European ban in 5 years time - if by then we had won a few trophies and maybe even a league title I wouldn't care less lol

People are going on like Man City have been liquidated - at worst they'll be banned for 2 years from the CL and maybe a points deduction or fine - if you offered Man City fans that 15 years ago when they wete fighting relegation and winning sod all they'll have 100% taken that.

City's problem isn't the ban. It is the way their sponsorship deals impact FFP.

FFP is based on a rolling three year period. Once City's sponsorships deals are revalued at their true levels and they lose their income from the Champions League it will be impossible to pass FFP without a Leeds United like fire sale.