LB - Left Back - Leighton Baines the best/world class?

[Azzurri]

Zidane wasn't world class.

Lol ok mate.

 

[kenada_blue]

Easy. Because the rest of the players in the squad they play for aren't good enough to get Champions League and the manager who doesn't pick him as number one is a clown.

Next.

I've read all Kenada Blues posts where he states that because Baines hasn't played at the very highest level he can't be considered world class but still can't figure out why that stops his talent from being as good as any other player in that position.

If you're the best guitarist in the world it doesn't matter if you play in your own bedroom or in front of 100,000 people headlining Glastonbury.

If the talent is there its there.

But it does matter. If you're Eric Clapton in your bedroom but **** it in front of 100k while some lad from Busted plays it like he was born to do it, the busted lad will always come out on top.

Baines is defo in the top end for his position, for a player with zero champions league and just starting his international career at 27 that's a feet in itself. But too many people throw "world class" around when they've really not done anything. So when someone like Baines is on the cusp of being in that bracket, I personally have fully justify it. And to me, there's just the one thing left for him to do, and what his peers do regularly before I can tick the box off.

If it came down to a world cup or any final and you needed an english left back etc 100% over Evertonians would say "baines". 90% of everyone else would say Cole. Asking yourself why, you come to the conclusion that away from stats he's actually been at the top end and won stuff, playing very well most of the time.

It's the only thing in my eyes. And I'd label that with most players, not just him.

 

[Brennan]

But it does matter. If you're Eric Clapton in your bedroom but **** it in front of 100k while some lad from Busted plays it like he was born to do it, the busted lad will always come out on top.

Baines is defo in the top end for his position, for a player with zero champions league and just starting his international career at 27 that's a feet in itself. But too many people throw "world class" around when they've really not done anything. So when someone like Baines is on the cusp of being in that bracket, I personally have fully justify it. And to me, there's just the one thing left for him to do, and what his peers do regularly before I can tick the box off.

If it came down to a world cup or any final and you needed an english left back etc 100% over Evertonians would say "baines". 90% of everyone else would say Cole. Asking yourself why, you come to the conclusion that away from stats he's actually been at the top end and won stuff, playing very well most of the time.

It's the only thing in my eyes. And I'd label that with most players, not just him.

Examples of a player of Baines' ability who has bottled it at Champions League or International level please. And no, people like Cantona with anger issues don't count.

I don't buy this line of 'its a whole different thing playing in Europe' stuff. It's a game of top flight football at the end of the day. He's played in FA Cup Semi's and a Final. and looked brilliant, and there is NOTHING to suggest he would 'bottle' it just because of where he's playing, he's a very calm and collected player.

And does that mean you don't think Southall was world class ?

 

[Kurt.]

Cole is just better.. End of.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

But it does matter. If you're Eric Clapton in your bedroom but **** it in front of 100k while some lad from Busted plays it like he was born to do it, the busted lad will always come out on top.

You're twisting things there though. Based on pure abilty you're either a world class footballer/best guitarist in the world or not. Thats what Baines is judged on, not because he might **** his pants playing in a Champions league final.

One player being more experienced than another doesn't make him better. I'd understand Cole rather than Baines in a high pressure game because he has better experience but it doesn't mean he's the better player.

I think i know where youre coming from but i disagree that it has any bearing on whether a player should be deemed one of the best in the world at what he does based on his performances in the Premier league.

Examples of a player of Baines' ability who has bottled it at Champions League or International level please. And no, people like Cantona with anger issues don't count.

I don't buy this line of 'its a whole different thing playing in Europe' stuff. It's a game of top flight football at the end of the day. He's played in FA Cup Semi's and a Final. and looked brilliant, and there is NOTHING to suggest he would 'bottle' it just because of where he's playing, he's a very calm and collected player.

And does that mean you don't think Southall was world class ?

 

[Brennan]

The Messi example is a perfect one tbh, he was under performing for Argentina when he was slotting goals left and right in La Liga and people were going crazy for him. World Class ? Obviously.

 

[paulbefc]

Whether he's world class or not, he scores boss goals, has the best delivery in the league, is honest as the day is long, runs non-stop for 90 mins up and down that line, never acts a blert like Suarez, never snaps people, doesn't run his mouth in the media, plays the game fair and square, loves this club and most importantly, he told United what they could do with their contract.

He's as committed as Cahill was and has 100x the ability. We've got (and have had) an unusual amount of good lids in our team, for a premier league side, but Baines is just pure class, imo.

 

[toffeestillidie]

yeah but ,,, he hasn't got a right foot...except for standing on.

did you forget his goal against Manchester City a couple seasons ago? I think he's actually scored a couple with his right.

A$hley Cole however can't control with his right foot to save his life, i don't understand why more defenders don't force him inside instead of giving him the line.

 

[kenada_blue]

Examples of a player of Baines' ability who has bottled it at Champions League or International level please. And no, people like Cantona with anger issues don't count.

I don't buy this line of 'its a whole different thing playing in Europe' stuff. It's a game of top flight football at the end of the day. He's played in FA Cup Semi's and a Final. and looked brilliant, and there is NOTHING to suggest he would 'bottle' it just because of where he's playing, he's a very calm and collected player.

And does that mean you don't think Southall was world class ?

Its not just that, it's everything at the top level, Europe is just a big part of it in the modern game. Rooney was labelled a bottler in big games, but you can counter that by saying he carried United to a title. Etc. Which is what I mentioned previously.

You say there's nothing to suggested Baines would bottle it, but there's not to suggest otherwise because he's not been there and done it, which is my point and what his peers are regularly involved with.

It's a logical step for me, for any player really. Okay, you can do it for this club, but can you do it on a higher stage? That sorts who's world class and who's not

He didn't look brilliant in the semi or final, not at all. He looked like everyone other Everton player. **** scared. Chelsea had lampards and drogbas who made it look like a walk in the park as they've been there before.

As for Southall. How many titles and honours did he win and was he playing at the top level at the time, and his country? Yes. So yeah, you can say world class.

 

[kenada_blue]

You're twisting things there though. Based on pure abilty you're either a world class footballer/best guitarist in the world or not. Thats what Baines is judged on, not because he might **** his pants playing in a Champions league final.

One player being more experienced than another doesn't make him better. I'd understand Cole rather than Baines in a high pressure game because he has better experience but it doesn't mean he's the better player.

I think i know where youre coming from but i disagree that it has any bearing on whether a player should be deemed one of the best in the world at what he does based on his performances in the Premier league.

But it edges it and you have to have the complete package. When it comes down to the tiresome "baines should play over cole" debate, the experience matters. There's no questions to be asked with Cole.

Baines is the better player in terms of what he can do at the moment. But until he's shown what he could do it at a level Cole as played at, Cole will always be first choice, and as why other players in his position over Europe tick a box he hasn't ticked yet.

That's just my view on the weeerld classssh debate.

 

[Jags..class]

He world class in my eyes, he just a joy to watch and a great professional, if a club got someone better then baines then well in cos they must have one hell of a player.

 

[wandyr79]

But it edges it and you have to have the complete package. When it comes down to the tiresome "baines should play over cole" debate, the experience matters. There's no questions to be asked with Cole.

Baines is the better player in terms of what he can do at the moment. But until he's shown what he could do it at a level Cole as played at, Cole will always be first choice, and as why other players in his position over Europe tick a box he hasn't ticked yet.

That's just my view on the weeerld classssh debate.

So are you saying on form Cole is still better. The problem with England and sometimes with club managers is that they have this false sense that because an experienced player did it before he must be able to do it again regardless of form. Is this not a massive criticism of former England managers.

Baines will only get that experience by playing so he should, for me, be 1st choice on form. I am certainly not saying that Cole has dropped a substantial amount of form but Baines has been class in every department that he should be judged as a player, role model.

 

[Brennan]

Its not just that, it's everything at the top level, Europe is just a big part of it in the modern game. Rooney was labelled a bottler in big games, but you can counter that by saying he carried United to a title. Etc. Which is what I mentioned previously.

You say there's nothing to suggested Baines would bottle it, but there's not to suggest otherwise because he's not been there and done it, which is my point and what his peers are regularly involved with.

It's a logical step for me, for any player really. Okay, you can do it for this club, but can you do it on a higher stage? That sorts who's world class and who's not

He didn't look brilliant in the semi or final, not at all. He looked like everyone other Everton player. **** scared. Chelsea had lampards and drogbas who made it look like a walk in the park as they've been there before.

As for Southall. How many titles and honours did he win and was he playing at the top level at the time, and his country? Yes. So yeah, you can say world class.

Moving the goal posts.

So if Baines won the PL he'd be world class ?

 

[EFC David]

Who is better than him then?

Cashley, Clichy, Alba, Marcelo.

 

[kenada_blue]

Moving the goal posts.

So if Baines won the PL he'd be world class ?

I said before with the Cantona thing in regards to titles when you mentioned di Stefano and Southall.

And to a point, yeah. If Baines, as he is now with his goals etc, was integral to a championship winning side, he'd be certainly in with being a world class player in my book. He'd certainly overtake Cole for the England spot.