Current Affairs Labour and Anti Semitism.......

[Steve0]

To be fair, he has spent the vast majority of his time in politics as a campaigning MP. Soundbites are his bread and butter. Prior to being elected leader, he's never been given any responsibility at all. No cabinet/shadow cabinet positions, to my knowledge he hasn't even chaired a select committee. Despite that though, he's the ideal bloke to run a country.

Say what you like about May, but she at least had several shadow cabinet positions and was Home Secretary for six years, so you could at least get an insight into whether she'd be good at these sort of things or not. For Corbynites, they believe in him in exactly the same way that Brexiteers believe in Brexit. It's a religion.

Yeah despite all that May is patently unsuited to the role....so not quite the failsafe metric you’re implying.

 

[Number_25]

Because history is littered with annexations, land grabs through war, colonialism etc. but very few moan about the borders changing in other countries. So you have to wonder why Israel gets special treatment, and to come to the conclusion of anti-semitism isn't a very difficult leap to make.

Israel was a reactionary decision, taken by the post-war Labour government as a means of reparation to the European Jewish population our country failed to protect from vile antisemitic scorn.

It is not antisemitic to have an opinion on whether Israel has a right to exist or not, in the same fashion that it's not Islamophobic to despise Saudi Arabia, or the actions of President Erdogan in Turkey.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yeah despite all that May is patently unsuited to the role....so not quite the failsafe metric you’re implying.

For the record, I wasn't suggesting that because she had experience that she would do a good job, more that her experience would give the electorate an idea of whether she'd be any good or not. I can't think of many 'recruitment' style processes where you won't be asked to demonstrate evidence that you have the skills required to do something, and it must be very rare indeed for an absolute rookie to get the biggest job in the organisation?

 

[Number_25]

I can't think of many 'recruitment' style processes where you won't be asked to demonstrate evidence that you have the skills required to do something, and it must be very rare indeed for an absolute rookie to get the biggest job in the organisation?

If politics was run like business, then I'd probably be dead.

 

[Steve0]

For the record, I wasn't suggesting that because she had experience that she would do a good job, more that her experience would give the electorate an idea of whether she'd be any good or not. I can't think of many 'recruitment' style processes where you won't be asked to demonstrate evidence that you have the skills required to do something, and it must be very rare indeed for an absolute rookie to get the biggest job in the organisation?

Yeah that’s difficult to argue against tbf.

However I think it’s very much a collective effort. Don’t think anyone is really qualified to run the country on their own.

I just think someone advocating the living wage, increased social housing, fewer foreign.,,excursions?, corporations paying fair share of tax etc would be a better leader.

 

[davids]

Yeah that’s difficult to argue against tbf.

However I think it’s very much a collective effort. Don’t think anyone is really qualified to run the country on their own.

I just think someone advocating the living wage, increased social housing, fewer foreign.,,excursions?, corporations paying fair share of tax etc would be a better leader.

Maybe one who advocated the freezing of MPs pay until the end of "austerity" and then any future rises linked to those of the Public Sector...although we'll win the World Club Championship before that ever happens.

 

[Tubey]

Israel was a reactionary decision, taken by the post-war Labour government as a means of reparation to the European Jewish population our country failed to protect from vile antisemitic scorn.

It is not antisemitic to have an opinion on whether Israel has a right to exist or not, in the same fashion that it's not Islamophobic to despise Saudi Arabia, or the actions of President Erdogan in Turkey.

I think it is, or to be more accurate I think it easily can be. A textbook example of it in fact.

There's a big difference between legitimately debating the merits of its' creation in 1948 and saying it has no right to exist in 2018.

Indeed, the current Labour guidelines on anti-semitism state what you've just said is borderline anti-semitic, even before the IHRA definitions, by including the right of Jewish self-determination; the very opposite of saying it doesn't have a right to exist.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yeah that’s difficult to argue against tbf.

However I think it’s very much a collective effort. Don’t think anyone is really qualified to run the country on their own.

I just think someone advocating the living wage, increased social housing, fewer foreign.,,excursions?, corporations paying fair share of tax etc would be a better leader.

Nothing wrong at all with getting behind those things, I guess my concern is that Brexit has shown there to be a vast chasm between what politicians promise and what they are capable of achieving. I think what the country really needs right now is someone who doesn't promise the earth and not deliver but someone with more mundane, yet manageable goals. Competence rather than ideology if you like. Brexit was driven by people with more ideology than competence, and I'm not convinced Corbyn would be any different.

 

[peteblue]

I was a fairly lonely kid, and my parents didn't have much to keep me occupied. During year 6, we were tasked with writing a report and giving a presentation on something history-related. After looking around, I decided to read up on the Newport Rising, and John Frost inparticular. I remember reading his letter to the Home Secretary who had just dismissed him as Justice of the Peace and feeling a strong sense duty toward him, the Chartists, and their struggles. This stuck with me so much that I now have the letter framed in my living room:

Uphold those bold Comrades, who suffer for you, who nobly stand foremost, demanding your due.
Away with the timid its treason to fear, to surrender or falter, when danger is near.
For now that our leaders disdain to betray, its base to desert them, or succumb delay.
Its time that the victims of labour and care, should for reap what is labour's fair share.
Its time that these voice in the councils be heard, the rather than pay for the law of the sword.
All power is ours, with a will of our own, we conquer, united; divided we groan.

Come hail brothers, hail the shrill sound of the horn, for ages deep wrongs have been hopelessly borne.
Despair shall no longer our spirits dismay, nor wither the arms when up raised for the fray.

The conflict for freedom is gathering nigh,
We live to secure it, or gloriously die.

I used to drink in the Westgate Hotel at the bottom of Stow Hill......

 

[davek]

Apparently right wing extremists from Britain First spotted amongst the anti-"Semitism" demonstrators outside Labour HQ, according to the Guardian. One of them is Britain First leader Paul Golding's body guard.

Does not surprise me one bit, as that rag tag bunch of no marks are bought and paid for and directed by Bannon and his Alt Right cohorts who's task is to knit together fascists all over Europe in order to bring down "liberal" democracy.

Give them nothing NEC. No IHRA code. Send them and their right wing media puppets into a frenzy and double down on the criticism of the Israeli apartheid terror state.

 

[Number_25]

I think it is, or to be more accurate I think it easily can be. A textbook example of it in fact.

There's a big difference between legitimately debating the merits of its' creation in 1948 and saying it has no right to exist in 2018.

Indeed, the current Labour guidelines on anti-semitism state what you've just said is borderline anti-semitic, even before the IHRA definitions, by including the right of Jewish self-determination; the very opposite of saying it doesn't have a right to exist.

So, if a country (say France) were to go down a route in which they become ideologically driven to create a white ethnonationalistic static - would it be anti-white to oppose that? Would it be anti-white to oppose it 80 years down the line?

 

[Jib in lad]

Apparently right wing extremists from Britain First spotted amongst the anti-"Semitism" demonstrators outside Labour HQ, according to the Guardian. One of them is Britain First leader Paul Golding's body guard.

Does not surprise me one bit, as that rag tag bunch of no marks are bought and paid for and directed by Bannon and his Alt Right cohorts who's task is to knit together fascists all over Europe in order to bring down "liberal" democracy.

Give them nothing NEC. No IHRA code. Send them and their right wing media puppets into a frenzy and double down on the criticism of the Israeli apartheid terror state.

 

[davek]

Thanks mate. There we have it. A dirty nazi at the heart of the anti-"Semitism" protest.

Proof, if any were needed, that this whole business is a load of baloney set up by the extreme right wing and propagated especially by the Tory poodles at the BBC.

No wonder no one takes this issue seriously in polls and at the ballot. It's a grotesque circus act.

 

[Number_25]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-polit...al&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking

 

[Tubey]

So, if a country (say France) were to go down a route in which they become ideologically driven to create a white ethnonationalistic static - would it be anti-white to oppose that? Would it be anti-white to oppose it 80 years down the line?

I've said it's perfectly fine to criticise Netanyahu and indeed the state of Israel based on its politics and actions. I find what they've done recently inparticular as utterly abhorrent.

However, that's a completely separate issue to denying its' core right to exist as a state right now. You don't seem to understand the distinction - you can criticise Israel for what they do and acknowledge their right to self-determination at the same time. You can even be outraged at how Israel came to be (as I am and any right minded person would be) but simultaneously recognise their right to exist in 2018.

That's why I think denying Israel's right to exist can be anti-semitic. Sure, those - like you - who do so on moral grounds from the displacement of the Palestinians alone aren't being anti-semitic, but the fact is it can be used as a vehicle for Jewish hatred.