Current Affairs Labour and Anti Semitism.......

[peteblue]

That is very dubious last point Bruce - yes, they didn't go back to the days when both of them were seas of red but they did far better than 2015 (especially in Wales).

They are the 3rd party in Scotland.....

 

[tsubaki]

They are the 3rd party in Scotland.....

In 2015 they won one seat. In 2017 they won seven. You cannot undo all the damage Blair did overnight.

 

[Jib in lad]

It was a simpler way of describing how the Labour Party are actively addressing the issue......

Like through critical thinking and not believing what you are told to believe by the MSM.

Its so condescending Pete.

 

[peteblue]

Like through critical thinking and not believing what you are told to believe by the MSM.

Its so condescending Pete.

I don’t mean to be condescending, it can be a personal failing of mine.....

 

[hullefc]

That's the reality of the situation. If you do a 'simple' reversal and give them the land back, Israel - a nuclear-enabled power - won't just sit on their hands and accept it.

You see things in black and white. You just expect a wrong to be reversed into a right because it's the right thing to do, and ignore the geopolitical realities of the situation. By fixing that wrong, you don't realise you're doing something equally wrong - displacing 8 million people. Two wrongs don't make a right and in this situation the second wrong would be impossible and mean inevitable war.

As for who determines the compromise, it's going to be a collective global effort, probably through the UN, when both sides come to the table. There's no other 'out' for this now. With Palestine having the moral upper hand, the negotiation will probably be a 'reverse land grab' resembling the 1967 borders, but there's no going back to 1948 - it's an impossibility. It won't happen any time soon, but it will be the ultimate solution.

That scenario is infinitely more likely than yours, which isn't a solution at all - it's instead a perpetual problem.

There is one wrong. The UN assisted colonisation of Palestine in 1948 that allowed the Palestinians to be forcefully removed at the point of a gun. And in the process creating 7 million displaced souls. Until the Palestinians get their homeland back there will not be any hope for peace in the region. How that happens will be up to the Palestinians. The UN have failed miserably as far as the Palestinians are concerned. They allow Israel to act with impunity, how many UN resolutions have been passed against Israel? 60 odd and they just laugh at the UN and continue with their brutal occupation of Palestine. Even committing war crimes in the process. But when the Palestinians threaten to take those occupying Palestine to the world court, the US withdraws funds for the Palestinians as a punishment. No wonder the Palestinians have no faith in the UN and have been forced to forage their own path.

But according to you, when the Palestinians get their homeland back those occupiers will drop a nuclear bomb. When will that be? When the Palestinians are back on their land, in their homes and in their businesses that were taken from them? Will it be like Custer's last stand? Will they drop the bomb on Gaza, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, or maybe areas in occupied Palestinian populated by Palestinians or maybe Jerusalem? Have they developed a bomb that will only kill Palestinians and not others including themselves? *redacted as this is one heck of an allegation to make without proof*

Or maybe they will drop their nuclear bombs on Syria and Iran, staunch supporters of the Palestinian cause and demonised as a result, including the US/UK waging war against those two countries, when the Palestinians are at the gates and ready to take back what is rightfully theirs? If those now occupying Tel Aviv are prepared to drop nuclear bombs in the region then it is about time Iran and Syria developed their own nuclear weapons are a deterrent. Surely, developing a deterrent must be the order of the day. Because isn't, 'getting rid of the UK's nuclear deterrent' a reason given for attacking Corbyn for his support for CND? 'Corbyn will leave us defenceless' is a constant attack on him. If it is ok for the UK to have a deterrent why can't other countries. Particularly in a region where, at the drop of a hat, someone will be prepared to drop a bomb, that will kill even their own people and themselves.

The Palestinians and their cause, getting their homeland back, is not going away. Just as all anti colonial struggles do not go away until they gain independence from colonial rule. .What happens to the colonists when the Palestinians are finally back into all of Palestine, is up to the colonists, as it was for British colonists in India, Africa and Asia. They can stay and work for the benefit of the newly created state or they can leave. The path the Palestinians choose to reach their goal will be up to them to determine.

 

[hullefc]

Labour's ruling body expected to back full IHRA definition

If the NEC think this will end the 'anti semitic' attacks against Corbyn and the labour party they are sadly mistaken. The Corbyn hatters have the bit between their teeth and are going for the jugular. Which is attempting to destroy a Corbyn led Labour party and in particular, any chance a Corbyn led Labour party will end up in government. .

"But some critics of Corbyn have said agreeing to the IHRA definition with all its examples will not be enough to end the row. Margaret Hodge, a leading critic of Corbyn over antisemitism, said she believed “the moment had passed” to restore trust in the party leader over the issue".

Corbyn's weakness is that he hasn't taken the 'accusers' on and exposed their real intention. He thinks if he gives in it will blow over. It will not. But it has silenced him about the Palestinian cause and the atrocities perpetrated by the IDF.

 

[Eggs]

..get a grip if you want to be electable.

 

[Number_25]

..get a grip if you want to be electable.

There's zero point in power if you're unable to speak the realities.

 

[Eggs]

There's zero point in power if you're unable to speak the realities.

..you need to be smart to reach power.

 

[Number_25]

It's worth remembering that in areas where there is a more natural alternative (Wales and Scotland), Labour didn't regain their previous strength in the last election. They're perhaps a bigger indicator of how effective Corbyn was.

This isn't true, in the slightest.

In Wales, Labour gained 3 seats - and has put many seats (Aberconwy, Ceredigion, Clwyd West, Preseli Pembrokeshire, and the Vale of Glamorgan) back into play with an average swing of ~10% in its favour.

As for Scotland, I think many Scots will see Labour as a viable alternative to the SNP next time around.

 

[Number_25]

..you need to be smart to reach power.

But at what cost?

Turnout in 2017 was below 70%. Labour still has a job in showing the 30% of people who don't vote that they're a real party for change, and the only way to do that is be steadfast in both its honesty and solidarity.

 

[peteblue]

..you need to be smart to reach power.

And credible....

 

[Number_25]

 

[Number_25]

And credible....

Standing up against an apartheid state should surely make you more credible, surely?

 

[zzr45]

The massive problem with Corbyn is as ever, he speaks in soundbites. Anti Semitism is wrong. IDF indiscriminate killings are wrong. There should be peace in the Middle East. All fine platitudes, but there never seems anything at all behind them. Surely the anti semitism is a perfect example to demonstrate leadership ability and set examples of what a Corbyn government would look like. Somehow actually looks worse than ‘safe hands’ May.