Current Affairs Labour and Anti Semitism.......

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magicjuan said:
There's a roundabout north/south element too, some people south think they are in 'an upper class' (nb not THE upper class) and as such vote tory, and some guardianistas who try to be hip with a social conscience and vote labour while being upper middle class-ish.
There's a broad band within each of the parties that allows people to come and go, mainly because they will swap ideas and tell lies to gain votes. Labour lost it when it gave up clause 4 thereby creating this '3rd way'. It's mainly just a soap opera.
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Yes, there's always been champagne socialists and working class Tories, and always will be. But they're the exceptions that prove the rule. IMO.
 
magicjuan said:
It is being made into an issue, not about jews or zionism or jewry but about Corbyn. Anti semitism is scandalous, it is seen by society as being the most pernicious of bigotries. Why? Is it worse than Islamaphobia? Sexism? Racism? Because it is put forward that way and it's easy to see it's being scammed as a proper issue by the blatant hypocrisy of those shouting the loudest. Any bigotry is wrong, one is no more 'special' than any other.
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It is seen as the worse because its had the biggest recent effect on the largest amount of people here (ie: the West), and it has had an immense impact of on generations of people in ways that other genocides haven't (the reasons why are perhaps for another debate, though the systematic way it was carried out and the amount of time it took are two of the more important ones).

Take what Hodge said last night for example - it was a risible comment but it is also one that (one would imagine) takes into account what most of the British Jewish community (and the diaspora generally) will have heard repeatedly from their elders, and it is a very real fear that a very large number of people have.

That is also of course why so many on the Israeli right seek to play on that fear to encourage aliyah, which has decimated Jewish communities across the globe (even ancient ones) - its why for instance Bibi went to the funeral of some of the people murdered in Paris by that vermin Coulibaly and openly told them Europe was no longer safe.
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
My point was twofold, firstly the idea that people still vote by ‘class’ is largely outdated imo. Secondly you could in theory take a sizeable chunk of the total votes in an election and win few or even none of the 650 seats, if your vote was fairly evenly distributed as opposed to it being located in geographical ‘hot spots’.

24% is nearly a quarter of the electorate mate, the Tories only got 42% of the vote in the last election
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Yes thats a fair point. I think voting intention is on lots of things and class is only 1 indicator. I think how we view class is also problematic and the "commentariats" understanding is actually quite out of touch with most peoples reality (but not in the UKIPy type way, as they just re-enforce the problem from the other side).

24% is by no means an insubstantial amount of support you are right, but even the Lib Dems got around 60 seats with that level of support. In the system we use there is a tipping point, and 24% is just below it. You push towards 30% and you start to really see differences.

The 24% would be overwhelmingly made up of (though not exclusively) Tories and Ukip. Any 3rd party would likely lead to a situation where the Tories dropped to 20% and Ukip 1/2%. In the event of UKIP being that party, and polling that high the Tories would likely be mid 20's as well, and it would mean Labour would probably have about 400-450 seats. If the Tories adopted that policy it would re-enforce their core vote, but they would lose much of there own voters in more swing areas who would be very put off by the idea. The issue is that it's a polarised issue and for the 24% of people who support it, you will have a large potentially larger section who oppose it vehemently.

I think the Tories will go down that route by the way. It will be a big mistake for them. They will be consolidating themselves as the opposition. I cannot work out why they don't learn from what George Osborne did but there you go.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
The vast majority of the shadow cabinet are from boroughs in North London though aren't they? If we're talking Labour as being a northern thing and Tories being a Southern thing...
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In fairness, Corbyn's first cabinet was from up and down the country - they just all resigned and refused to take their roles up.
  • McDonnell: Liverpool*
  • Burnham: Aintree*
  • A. Eagle: Bridlington*
  • Smith: Pontypridd*
  • Powell: Manchester*
  • Trickett: Leeds*
  • Nandy: Manchester*
  • Abbott: Paddington
  • Malhortra: Hammersmith
  • Watson: Sheffield*
  • Alexander: Swindon*
  • M. Eagle: Bridlington*
  • Bryant: Cardiff*
  • Greenwood: Bolton*
  • Griffith: Dublin/Neath*
  • McCarthy: Luton*
  • Green: Edinburgh*
  • Berger: Wembley
  • McKinnell: Newcastle*
  • Healey: Wakefield*
Facts Brucey boy, facts.
 
Number_25 said:
In fairness, Corbyn's first cabinet was from up and down the country - they just all resigned and refused to take their roles up.
  • McDonnell: Liverpool*
  • Burnham: Aintree*
  • A. Eagle: Bridlington*
  • Smith: Pontypridd*
  • Powell: Manchester*
  • Trickett: Leeds*
  • Nandy: Manchester*
  • Abbott: Paddington
  • Malhortra: Hammersmith
  • Watson: Sheffield*
  • Alexander: Swindon*
  • M. Eagle: Bridlington*
  • Bryant: Cardiff*
  • Greenwood: Bolton*
  • Griffith: Dublin/Neath*
  • McCarthy: Luton*
  • Green: Edinburgh*
  • Berger: Wembley
  • McKinnell: Newcastle*
  • Healey: Wakefield*
Facts Brucey boy, facts.
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Hahaha.....I wonder why they resigned......
 
Bruce Wayne said:
The vast majority of the shadow cabinet are from boroughs in North London though aren't they? If we're talking Labour as being a northern thing and Tories being a Southern thing...
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The difference between this Labour and New Labour is that the leadership of this Labour live in and represent boroughs from North London, wheras New Labour lived in North London but had safe seats elsewhere.

TBH I'd rather have people who live in and know their consituencies lead the party than those who have been parachuted in and live elsewhere (and who got that post because of activity not in the constituency).
 
catcherintherye said:
The North South thing people don't get and it's completely under utilised in terms of political discussion. Beyond the "Northerners are all racist and love UKIP" line that will occasionally be trotted out (liberal southerners love it as it makes them feel superior, right with southerners love it because they can claim solidly voting Labour areas are actually tories, journalists love it as it makes an interesting story, wealthy people like it because it makes working class people seem the racists not blokes like Boris Johnson etc).

The reality is, that we have two countries in England. One that always votes Labour, with a handful of Tory seats, the other that votes Conservative with a handful of Labour areas. A big problem of legitimacy for both parties is that they govern one half of the country with little to no consent. Most Southerners feel they have a Labour government imposed on them, and most in the north feel the same but in opposite.
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It has nothing to do with North v South and everything to do with City vs Country....

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