Current Affairs Labour and Anti Semitism.......

[Number_25]

As much as it pains me to say it, I think the time's right to split up the Labour Party.

I'm not willing to see the party that has provided me so much opportunity go the way of its European counterparts, and given the rise of the far right - we need to have a mass-movement counteract from the left.

If those "so called moderates" do not understand this, then they should stand aside.

 

[Socrates]

As much as it pains me to say it, I think the time's right to split up the Labour Party.

I'm not willing to see the party that has provided me so much opportunity go the way of its European counterparts, and given the rise of the far right - we need to have a mass-movement counteract from the left.

If those "so called moderates" do not understand this, then they should stand aside.

Yup.

These so called centrists are just that and should go and join the Lib Dems just like the Gang of Three a few decades ago if they want to be Tory lite.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yup.

These so called centrists are just that and should go and join the Lib Dems just like the Gang of Three a few decades ago if they want to be Tory lite.

Hang on, so if a centrist is somehow Tory lite, presumably there's a forum in a Tory heartland somewhere accusing any centrist Tory of being Labour lite?

 

[Number_25]

Hang on, so if a centrist is somehow Tory lite, presumably there's a forum in a Tory heartland somewhere accusing any centrist Tory of being Labour lite?

I'm really sorry, but it really isn't difficult.

Conservatism is the "commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation.
"proponents of theological conservatism", that includes this neo-liberal belief that the free market should be wholly disembodied from state intervention; leading to the exact kind of wild-west economy we are currently experiencing.

The so-called centrist viewpoints do nothing to counteract these issues, instead looking toward the management of them as an atttempt of mitigating its worst aspects upon wider society.

 

[Number_25]

I was actively involved in 5 separate campaigns during the 2016 general election. Prior to it, I had campaigned for Labour since 2006, but mostly in local elections as my birthplace is a very safe Labour seat in parliamentary elections - so I'm not of the Momentum creed.

2016 was a game changer as far as I'm concerned. We found ourselves in a situation where local organisers were telling people to say that "Jeremy can't win, but x will be a good Local MP" - a complete misunderstanding of just how big the surge was in our favour.

Even when it became evidently clear that public perception had changed, right until the last day many were still of the mentality that we should fight a defensive campaign.

This mentality still hasn't stopped, and whilst I used to belief it was out of sheer ignorance - I now believe that it's an act of great deceit.

The Labour Party has changed, New Labour is dead. If it's really important for MPs like Margaret Hodge to belong to a party that will wage war in the Middle East, whilst supporting the racist Israeli government, then they should form their own party and get on with it.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm really sorry, but it really isn't difficult.

Conservatism is the "commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation.
"proponents of theological conservatism", that includes this neo-liberal belief that the free market should be wholly disembodied from state intervention; leading to the exact kind of wild-west economy we are currently experiencing.

The so-called centrist viewpoints do nothing to counteract these issues, instead looking toward the management of them as an atttempt of mitigating its worst aspects upon wider society.

That's not true at all though is it? Government spending across most of the western world is between 40-50% of GDP. That says to me that the state has a pretty big role in western societies. It's perhaps worth also remembering that in the past 70 years or so that governments of both red and blue have only run a budget surplus a handful of times, so it's hardly as though governments are squireling away huge sums, or even living within their means tbh.

We can see a direct contrast just over the channel as the French government has historically spent 10% of it's GDP more than the British government has, and at the moment it's edging up towards 20%. Is French society noticeably better than British society? I would suggest probably not, and in many areas they do worse. That alone suggests that the state spending lots of money isn't some kind of panacea.

 

[Number_25]

That's not true at all though is it? Government spending across most of the western world is between 40-50% of GDP. That says to me that the state has a pretty big role in western societies. It's perhaps worth also remembering that in the past 70 years or so that governments of both red and blue have only run a budget surplus a handful of times, so it's hardly as though governments are squireling away huge sums, or even living within their means tbh.

We can see a direct contrast just over the channel as the French government has historically spent 10% of it's GDP more than the British government has, and at the moment it's edging up towards 20%. Is French society noticeably better than British society? I would suggest probably not, and in many areas they do worse. That alone suggests that the state spending lots of money isn't some kind of panacea.

Could you point to the bit in my post that states that the issue is "not spending enough money"?

 

[dholliday]

Hang on, so if a centrist is somehow Tory lite, presumably there's a forum in a Tory heartland somewhere accusing any centrist Tory of being Labour lite?

British politics doesn't really have a centrist party (except New Labour, which without Blair became unvoteable). In Germany Schröder's SPD were centrist, and FDP are now.

A British breakaway party with classical centrist ideals might do well, possibly better than UKIP within two election cycles. Either that or a post-Corbyn Labour (should he not win the next GE) return to the centre ala Blair-era.

Like with Germany's CDU domination, if Britons want to break the Tory hold they need the opposition to move closer to the centre. After all, it's where most people are.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Could you point to the bit in my post that states that the issue is "not spending enough money"?

I took that as a given tbh.

 

[Number_25]

I took that as a given tbh.

It isn't.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It isn't.

So Corbyn would reduce government spending?

 

[Number_25]

So Corbyn would reduce government spending?

If the next Labour government makes a real effort to:

• Invest in our god awful infrastructure.
• Reinvigorate our long-diminished manufacturing base in a fashion that's not only sustainable, but will ensure high skilled - high wage - long term employment for those hit hardest by the failures of previous governments.
• Succeed in attaining all tax owed by multinationals and our countries economic elites.

Then yes.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If the next Labour government makes a real effort to:

• Invest in our god awful infrastructure.
• Reinvigorate our long-diminished manufacturing base in a fashion that's not only sustainable, but will ensure high skilled - high wage - long term employment for those hit hardest by the failures of previous governments.
• Succeed in attaining all tax owed by multinationals and our countries economic elites.

Then yes.

I'm not being facetious, but how would he do that without raising spending?

 

[Number_25]

I'm not being facetious, but how would he do that without raising spending?

You're a smart dude, I'm fairly certain I don't have to explain what investment is.

 

[tsubaki]

I'm not being facetious, but how would he do that without raising spending?

There are areas in which a Corbyn government really could do that - the railways are the most notorious example, but also some PFI schemes (which even Boris managed to do when Metronet went under) and some sectors of the MoD (defence housing especially, which is a scandal that noone appears to want to know about).