Current Affairs Labour and Anti Semitism.......

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Black Belt Jones said:
Anyone hear Ken interviewed on five live earlier? Came out with a corker, recollecting the various media smear campaigns against him, he said the mail once accused him of being sodomised by six men in 1981, and back then that wasn't necessarily the vote winner it is today.

Overall though, it was pretty tragic and he came across as a bit of an addled arl fella tbh - alehouse politics. Just torturous to listen to him trying to negotiate his way through what Hitler did and did not say, and what he said Hitler said or did not say wrt Jewish people. As if you could articulate some sort of nuanced position, in mainstream political discourse, on such a seismic event.
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Aye I never used to mind him too much but he lost it here. What he said was mental and widely admonished then instead of just admitting that he was talking guff or apologising he just kept digging a bigger hole. He should have either left or been kicked out of the party straight away.
 
Black Belt Jones said:
Anyone hear Ken interviewed on five live earlier? Came out with a corker, recollecting the various media smear campaigns against him, he said the mail once accused him of being sodomised by six men in 1981, and back then that wasn't necessarily the vote winner it is today.

Overall though, it was pretty tragic and he came across as a bit of an addled arl fella tbh - alehouse politics. Just torturous to listen to him trying to negotiate his way through what Hitler did and did not say, and what he said Hitler said or did not say wrt Jewish people. As if you could articulate some sort of nuanced position, in mainstream political discourse, on such a seismic event.
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He’s a pillock, he always has been and he has always talked absolute rubbish.....
 
Number_25 said:
The Haavara agreement existed. That is fact.
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Yeah it certainly was, but Livingstone didn't just say "the Haavara agreement existed" did he - he said Hitler supported Zionism in the 30s.

It wasn't Hitler 'supporting' Zionism as the motive - the motive was to get rid of Jews as quickly as possible and was a solution before merely killing them became the 'final solution', so Livingstone was quite simply incorrect in labelling Hitler a Zionist at any stage of his life.

I've just gave you a link that clearly explains why it wasn't, so not sure what else you need. That said, common sense coupled with a general sense of world history should be enough really.
 
Tubey said:
Yeah it certainly was, but Livingstone didn't just say "the Haavara agreement existed" did he - he said Hitler supported Zionism in the 30s.

It wasn't Hitler 'supporting' Zionism as the motive - the motive was to get rid of Jews as quickly as possible and was a solution before merely killing them became the 'final solution', so Livingstone was quite simply incorrect in labelling Hitler a Zionist at any stage of his life.

I've just gave you a link that clearly explains why it wasn't, so not sure what else you need. That said, common sense coupled with a general sense of world history should be enough really.
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Hitler supported the idea that Jewish people should be moved to Palestine, the same overarching goal of the Zionist movement.
 
He was a avid supporter of the Palestinian cause as is Corbyn. Hence the anti Semitic row affecting them and anyone who criticises Israel

Make of that what you will
 
Number_25 said:
Hitler supported the idea that Jewish people should be moved to Palestine, the same overarching goal of the Zionist movement.
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No, he didn't; he supported the idea of getting rid of Jews from Germany. Full stop. Such as the Madagascar Plan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

The idea that he was somehow fully on board with the Zionists and 'sound' with Jews before WW2 is utterly bonkers given he calls for the extermination of them in Mein Kampf in the 20s.

Hitler did not support Zionism or the idea of Zionism in any way, meaning Livingstone was 100% totally wrong in his interpretation of the Haavara Agreement. The Agreement was a means to end - get rid of the Jews; solve the 'Jewish Question'.

Anyone with a shred of knowledge about Nazi Germany knew Livingstone was wrong. He should have apologised. He didn't. You don't have a valid opinion here - you are quite simply totally wrong.
 
Tubey said:
No, he didn't; he supported the idea of getting rid of Jews from Germany. Full stop. Such as the Madagascar Plan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

The idea that he was somehow fully on board with the Zionists and 'sound' with Jews before WW2 is utterly bonkers given he calls for the extermination of them in Mein Kampf in the 20s.

Hitler did not support Zionism or the idea of Zionism in any way, meaning Livingstone was 100% totally wrong in his interpretation of the Haavara Agreement. The Agreement was a means to end - get rid of the Jews; solve the 'Jewish Question'.

Anyone with a shred of knowledge about Nazi Germany knew Livingstone was wrong. He should have apologised. He didn't. You don't have a valid opinion here - you are quite simply totally wrong.
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Just a heads up, this conflation of Judaism and Zionism needs to stop.

Secondly, KL didn't say that Hitler were "sound" with the Jews - far from it.

Thirdly, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement.

You're the incorrect one here.
 
Number_25 said:
Just a heads up, this conflation of Judaism and Zionism needs to stop.

Secondly, KL didn't say that Hitler were "sound" with the Jews - far from it.

Thirdly, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement.

You're the incorrect one here.
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No, again you are fundamentally wrong in your interpretation of it. I'm baffled as to how you aren't seeing this - you said:

Hitler supported the idea that Jewish people should be moved to Palestine.
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And again, no he didn't - he supported the removal of Jews from Germany, full stop. The methods were varied but it was primarily (key word!) to answer the Nazi 'Jewish Question', not to support Zionism. Similarly, the idea to ship Jews to Madagascar wasn't to support Madagascarism!!!

I normally stress that I simply have a contrary opinion on things and I sometimes express them strongly, but I respect the opposite opinion. In this case, I don't respect your opinion as it isn't an opinion - it's simply incorrect. Factually, utterly incorrect.

Also, Livingstone said Hitler supported Zionism "before he went mad" - again, no; Hitler was advocating genocide whilst sat in prison in 1923, a decade before Haavara. He was not and never was a supporter of Zionism - he was a fan of getting rid of Jews from Germany by any means necessary, including via gas chamber. There's obviously a bloody difference between those two things!
 
Who is this Ken Livingstone, what office does he hold, what office did he hold and when did he last hold office. I'm struggling to understand his relevance.
 
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