Kieran Dowell

[jceverton]

I take you point mate, but look at Belg Ken, he played in 65% of our games last season got 4 goals and 8 assists.

The standard is being raised as the quality is being brought in, it's a competitive environment and when you get the chance you have to produce.

Your point about Dowell is totally ridiculous and sets an unfair bar that no young Everton player could hit. If you look at the stats of Paul Scholes in his first season at Man Utd he played 17 times in league and got 5 goals & 2 assists.
That's arguably the top homegrown midfielder in the Premiership era in the best attacking team! If Dowell gets 15 appearances this season and gets 3/4 goals and 1/2 assists that will have been a massive success.
Sigurdsson has only managed 10 goals and 10 assists in the league in one season, last season. Rooney last did it 4 seasons ago. Midfielders statistically are at their best 27/28. Sigurdsson has most probably one more season at his peak then he will decline.

 

[CynicalBlue]

Your point about Dowell is totally ridiculous and sets an unfair bar that no young Everton player could hit. If you look at the stats of Paul Scholes in his first season at Man Utd he played 17 times in league and got 5 goals & 2 assists.
That's arguably the top homegrown midfielder in the Premiership era in the best attacking team! If Dowell gets 15 appearances this season and gets 3/4 goals and 1/2 assists that will have been a massive success.
Sigurdsson has only managed 10 goals and 10 assists in the league in one season, last season. Rooney last did it 4 seasons ago. Midfielders statistically are at their best 27/28. Sigurdsson has most probably one more season at his peak then he will decline.

I couldn't agree more, most players aside from strikers rarely hit double figures so 3/4 goals would be an acceptable return from Kieran.

 

[Zatara]

I think this lad has potential to do really well in the game, if it all comes together.

But, and here's a question for those clamouring for him to start the season on our right hand side, will you be comfortable playing the likes of City, Chelsea, Spurs and United with him and Kenny as our right hand side? For me it's one or the other, and even then I wouldn't be 100% confident.

I think for Kenny and Dowell this is the season that they (and the others in their age group) get game time and experience hopefully cementing themselves in as rotation options for next season. I don't think anyone is expecting huge things from any of them this year.

 

[davek]

Yep in both mate, I know Barkley hasn't, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be our standard.

Rooney and Gylfi are both capable of it. That should be the goal and standard to be expected. We have heavy lifting to do if we are going to spread the handicap from looseing Lukaku.

It can be an ambition for him to get those figures, but it cant be an expectation. The vast majority of the PL's top players wont get that double.

If Dowell comes in and gets us 6 goals and 6-8 assists it's a breakthrough season for him.

Let's not set the bar too high for him.

 

[fabricsince1985]

It can be an ambition for him to get those figures, but it cant be an expectation. The vast majority of the PL's top players wont get that double.

If Dowell comes in and gets us 6 goals and 6-8 assists it's a breakthrough season for him.

Let's not set the bar too high for him.

I think those figures are setting the bar high personally.

If he does indeed play and look comfortable in the team/premiership is a start. If he then can add in 3 or 4 goals and any number of assists, fantastic. Here's hoping he does it!

 

[Neiler]

It can be an ambition for him to get those figures, but it cant be an expectation. The vast majority of the PL's top players wont get that double.

If Dowell comes in and gets us 6 goals and 6-8 assists it's a breakthrough season for him.

Let's not set the bar too high for him.

I'd agree to an extent a good season for him a sense I said is to be coimimg on in games and because of that 4 and 4 seems reasonable that below say a big part Mirrallas. However if he wants a starting place I think we are looking at double figures on both.

 

[Neiler]

Your point about Dowell is totally ridiculous and sets an unfair bar that no young Everton player could hit. If you look at the stats of Paul Scholes in his first season at Man Utd he played 17 times in league and got 5 goals & 2 assists.
That's arguably the top homegrown midfielder in the Premiership era in the best attacking team! If Dowell gets 15 appearances this season and gets 3/4 goals and 1/2 assists that will have been a massive success.
Sigurdsson has only managed 10 goals and 10 assists in the league in one season, last season. Rooney last did it 4 seasons ago. Midfielders statistically are at their best 27/28. Sigurdsson has most probably one more season at his peak then he will decline.

I think you read to need my posts again mate I have already discussed coming of the bench is all can be expected of him and he will be doing well to that. I do however feel 4 goals and 4 assists is reasonable in terms of development. I said to nail a starting spot he needs to be capable of double figures in goals and assists. That I think is our standard.

 

[chicoazul]

I've never seen a lad who looks more Ormskirk than him.

 

[davek]

I think those figures are setting the bar high personally.

If he does indeed play and look comfortable in the team/premiership is a start. If he then can add in 3 or 4 goals and any number of assists, fantastic. Here's hoping he does it!

I agree, even those are ambitious. Nevertheless, I think given game time he could get them. All depends on the quality around this kid. Put him in a bang average team with poor movement and poor finishing and he'll sink like a stone; surround him with great movement and finishers and he\ll come up with a lot of assists and a few goals himself.

Just to reiterate: loaning him out is not on...not on at all. It'll destroy any momentum he's built up this summer.

 

[davek]

I've never seen a lad who looks more Ormskirk than him.

Ha Ha Ha.

 

[johnnydawg68]

Just give the lad a chance to compete for his place is all.

 

[Philw]

as if that's something any daft get cant do.

Maybe that's why 'daft gets' appreciate those players. It's something that they can do themselves, something that PL players do that they can actually replicate, which makes them feel a bit better/closer/relateable.

where he'll learn nothing and just be targeted week in week out?

However I do agree with @davek that a loan to the championship on league one would do the lad no good at all getting lumps kicked out of him.

Players that go on loan can make it with us. Plenty of examples. Coleman, Oscan, Barkley off the top of my head.

Dowell though needs not to be in a thuggish league, he won't flourish there. Barkley didn't in the Championship.

I think that it could very well be helpful to him to learn to cope with exactly that. The PL is renowned for being one of the most physical in the world. Why wouldn't you want him to get experience of that? Also a loan doesn't have to be 'succesful' to be a useful learning/devolpment tool, and recovering from a bad loan could be a good sign of mental strength which is essential to make it at the top.

If Dowell comes in and gets us 6 goals and 6-8 assists it's a breakthrough season for him.

I think those figures are setting the bar high personally.

If he does indeed play and look comfortable in the team/premiership is a start. If he then can add in 3 or 4 goals and any number of assists, fantastic. Here's hoping he does it!

I think given game time he could get them.

Those sort of figures would be better than pretty much all our current players. It would be an achievement if he got those figures starting every game, let alone playing a bit part/coming on a as sub etc. A goal and a couple assists per ten games would be a great return for a player of his age/position imo.

 

[formerly manx toffee]

Yes JD, but the point is a fair one. To get a consistent starting birth in a side looking to be top 6 you need to add goals and assists. This is not an immediate bar for Dowell but it is where he needs to get to in time. My guess is that he will not be a consistent starter until he becomes close the level of productivity.

IF we are to be top 6

 

[Goat]

MK Dons within 18months.

 

[Ameen]

Matt Le Dowell