Kieran Dowell

[johnnydawg68]

For clarity, what do you think will happen?

You think Ronny was impressed with his ability to ghost out of games for 89 minutes and giving the ball away constantly?

He's been fantastic this pre-season. Created a very clear cut chance for Rooney, and started the movement that lead to the goal.

Last time I checked, Ronny understands that you keep score using goals.

He'll start next week in the EL game, score another worldie and firmly place himself in the frame for the 1st team all season. The championship will do nothing for this lad. He's got skill. Major skill. Turning up week in week out with that bunch of heathens in the Championship is useless. He needs to be training with the first team every day and get at least as fair a shot at Cocounts Martina.

 

[johnnydawg68]

Do you think he suits the system Koeman prefers?
Do you think he can press the way Koeman wants in that system
Do you think Koeman will be ok to carry a 19yo 'luxury' player in this squad?

Do you think he plays ahead of Sigurdsson when he signs or Bolasie when he returns, or displaces Gueye/Schneiderlin/klassen in the centre?

He creates chances. That's what I think. Sigurdsson doesn't play for us, and I doubt RK seems him as a wide player anyway. Bolasie? Who knows, he wasn't all that great before he got hurt, and we have no idea how long it will take him to get back to 100% anyway.

 

[Geoff Nulty]

I hope the poor lad isn't going to be one of those players who has to score from 30 yards every other game in order to keep the manager and supporters off his back. Most players are allowed quiet, ineffective games without anyone complaining, but flair players are never allowed an off game. If all that's been said about him in recent years is true, he'll be terrific for us, but he's going to give the ball away and try things that don't come when: it's inevitable. But he's bright and a keen student, and has everything going for him. Maybe he's one of the reasons Koeman is so cool about Barkley's situation.

 

[johnnydawg68]

I hope the poor lad isn't going to be one of those players who has to score from 30 yards every other game in order to keep the manager and supporters off his back. Most players are allowed quiet, ineffective games without anyone complaining, but flair players are never allowed an off game. If all that's been said about him in recent years is true, he'll be terrific for us, but he's going to give the ball away and try things that don't come when: it's inevitable. But he's bright and a keen student, and has everything going for him. Maybe he's one of the reasons Koeman is so cool about Barkley's situation.

No kidding. The double standard is unreal.

 

[Goat]

He's been fantastic this pre-season. Created a very clear cut chance for Rooney, and started the movement that lead to the goal.

Last time I checked, Ronny understands that you keep score using goals.

He'll start next week in the EL game, score another worldie and firmly place himself in the frame for the 1st team all season. The championship will do nothing for this lad. He's got skill. Major skill. Turning up week in week out with that bunch of heathens in the Championship is useless. He needs to be training with the first team every day and get at least as fair a shot at Cocounts Martina.

I wouldnt say hes been fantastic at all, hes shown glimpses of talent, the boy has a big future if he can kick on in the next 12months and the best way to kick on is to play every week at his age. He might well feature for a while, but we will sign more players and he will be pushed further behind.

 

[davek]

I hope the poor lad isn't going to be one of those players who has to score from 30 yards every other game in order to keep the manager and supporters off his back. Most players are allowed quiet, ineffective games without anyone complaining, but flair players are never allowed an off game. If all that's been said about him in recent years is true, he'll be terrific for us, but he's going to give the ball away and try things that don't come when: it's inevitable. But he's bright and a keen student, and has everything going for him. Maybe he's one of the reasons Koeman is so cool about Barkley's situation.

Spot on mate.

There's a wariness about talent that just doesn't tally with the conceit of this club's supporters that they want a team that befits the school of science.

In the last 12 months I sense a determination to just give the plaudits to players who press and run hard...as if that's something any daft get cant do.

 

[Geoff Nulty]

Spot on mate.

There's a wariness about talent that just doesn't tally with the conceit of this club's supporters that they want a team that befits the school of science.

In the last 12 months I sense a determination to just give the plaudits to players who press and run hard...as if that's something any daft get cant do.

Total effort should be a given, something not even worth mentioning. I think it's something more than wariness - there's an eagerness to be exasperated. I've been guilty of it myself, to be honest. I can understand people having higher expectations of the more talented players, and also the frustration when an easy pass is given away or overhit. But it's the anger when a good idea doesn't come off that gets me. Anyway, from what I know about Dowell, he's a bright lad who has the brains to control moves and shift tempo, as well as play clever passes and score goals. I hope he gets the chance to play with Davies and Kenny in the first team. They'll play better as friends together, and they'll know each other's games backwards.

 

[davek]

Total effort should be a given, something not even worth mentioning. I think it's something more than wariness - there's an eagerness to be exasperated. I've been guilty of it myself, to be honest. I can understand people having higher expectations of the more talented players, and also the frustration when an easy pass is given away or overhit. But it's the anger when a good idea doesn't come off that gets me. Anyway, from what I know about Dowell, he's a bright lad who has the brains to control moves and shift tempo, as well as play clever passes and score goals. I hope he gets the chance to play with Davies and Kenny in the first team. They'll play better as friends together, and they'll know each other's games backwards.

We used to indulge players like this, not just us either. But the stats generation of fans emphasise quantity over quality.

5 minutes of play from this lad - as you say, creating the tempo and trying things out - is worth 90 minutes of most other players efforts.

Some can only offer hard work and there's a place for it, but that hard work shouldn't be lauded or seen in any way shape or form as more important than what players like Dowell can produce.

 

[bluestevon]

We used to indulge players like this, not just us either. But the stats generation of fans emphasise quantity over quality.

5 minutes of play from this lad - as you say, creating the tempo and trying things out - is worth 90 minutes of most other players efforts.

Some can only offer hard work and there's a place for it, but that hard work shouldn't be lauded or seen in any way shape or form as more important than what players like Dowell can produce.

So would you then take a Lukaku over a Sharp then Dave, because one produced more 'moments' than the other.

 

[Toffeepot]

We used to indulge players like this, not just us either. But the stats generation of fans emphasise quantity over quality.

5 minutes of play from this lad - as you say, creating the tempo and trying things out - is worth 90 minutes of most other players efforts.

Some can only offer hard work and there's a place for it, but that hard work shouldn't be lauded or seen in any way shape or form as more important than what players like Dowell can produce.

The hard workers create the platform for the flair players to function... if all 11 only turned up for 5 minutes it would be a disaster...having said that I don't think he's lazy and saw him working today as well as doing a few sweet things, I think he'll break through.

 

[formerly manx toffee]

These players have always been hot or cold depending on who you are. Le Tissier, footballing genius or Lazy passenger

 

[bluestevon]

Total effort should be a given, something not even worth mentioning. I think it's something more than wariness - there's an eagerness to be exasperated. I've been guilty of it myself, to be honest. I can understand people having higher expectations of the more talented players, and also the frustration when an easy pass is given away or overhit. But it's the anger when a good idea doesn't come off that gets me. Anyway, from what I know about Dowell, he's a bright lad who has the brains to control moves and shift tempo, as well as play clever passes and score goals. I hope he gets the chance to play with Davies and Kenny in the first team. They'll play better as friends together, and they'll know each other's games backwards.

He is someone who can produce something special at times, but is no way shape or form involved enough to be given a free role or act as a playmaker, thats why a good sorted loan would do wonders for him

 

[bluestevon]

These players have always been hot or cold depending on who you are. Le Tissier, footballing genius or Lazy passenger

simple answer - he was both

 

[johnnydawg68]

I wouldnt say hes been fantastic at all, hes shown glimpses of talent, the boy has a big future if he can kick on in the next 12months and the best way to kick on is to play every week at his age. He might well feature for a while, but we will sign more players and he will be pushed further behind.

Barkley gives it away a fair bit and we offered him 100k a week. This kids football IQ compared to Barkley is off the charts. He's got a left foot and a brain. That'll do for me.

 

[Moomin]

He is quality.