2024/25 Kevin Thelwell

[EFC_FRANCIS]

With respect to those who have posted it, I’m not sure why anyone would want Moyes as a DOF. He’s never been one before so there’s no evidence he’d be any good at it apart from having done some good transfer business in the 00s.

He might be good at it like, but I don’t think it’s a guarantee

Nothing is a guarantee with anything in football. We've had a super scout, highly respected sporting director and then experienced director of football in the role whilst the squad has been getting worse and worse and results bottomed out. All, have had different job descriptions of whats expected of them and none have followed the same plan. Dan Ashworth was seen as the most sure thing in football by some until a year ago.

Moyes could be our DoF but I'm not sure everton necessarily need one.

in our case. Kev is a self described line manager for all the actual meaningful roles. That can, and probably will, be taken over by a new role like Technical/Sporting Director. Right now in the short term the only thing that needs covering under thelwells remit is whether players should be offered new contracts, squad planning and if Alcaraz should start another 6 games to pay 15 million. Moyes should be well versed enough to handle all of that and I'd rather his input on that over Thelwell in any case.

 

[toffeeblue9]

With respect to those who have posted it, I’m not sure why anyone would want Moyes as a DOF. He’s never been one before so there’s no evidence he’d be any good at it apart from having done some good transfer business in the 00s.

He might be good at it like, but I don’t think it’s a guarantee

A DOF should be right across all of the academy stuff etc as well.

I have it from the horse's mouth that Moyes had no interest at all in the academy when he was here in his first spell.

I genuinely have no idea why people think he'd make the transition seemlessly.

Again, the role of a DOF is more than just transfers. Moyes didn't even negotiate transfers when he was here last time, Kenwright did all that.

 

[Neiler]

He isn't a top player and won't ever be but we are getting enough from him at the moment to show he has a squad value somewhere.

If you give him games hes scoring goals in my opinion.

 

[Neiler]

I mean that's fair enough and probably the right way of looking at it.

However given he hardly ever played him, on the balance of probability I doubt he was his signing.

My wider point though, is West Hams recruitment was now woeful or whatever it was suggested. I think it was decent. Not outstanding, but there were definitely some good buys

One of the weird things about WHU recruitment under Moyes was how badly they recruited in defense.

Moyes usually has an eye for a very good defender - which make me think there was a big DOF influence there.

I actually see Moyes being here now longer then his contract - providing all goes well day-day, after yesterdays announcement.

 

[Billy Dean]

Nothing is a guarantee with anything in football. We've had a super scout, highly respected sporting director and then experienced director of football in the role whilst the squad has been getting worse and worse and results bottomed out. All, have had different job descriptions of whats expected of them and none have followed the same plan. Dan Ashworth was seen as the most sure thing in football by some until a year ago.

Moyes could be our DoF but I'm not sure everton necessarily need one.

in our case. Kev is a self described line manager for all the actual meaningful roles. That can, and probably will, be taken over by a new role like Technical/Sporting Director. Right now in the short term the only thing that needs covering under thelwells remit is whether players should be offered new contracts, squad planning and if Alcaraz should start another 6 games to pay 15 million. Moyes should be well versed enough to handle all of that and I'd rather his input on that over Thelwell in any case.

Yeah I’m sure Moyes can handle squad planning for the first team. But there are loads of other things a DOF does. Yes a DOF is essentially a “line manager” and there’s nothing wrong with that even though it doesn’t sound like a “proper football man” kind of job. But if KT is not doing it then someone will have to and I’m not sure if the right person for that is Moyes. He doesn’t have any experience overseeing an academy or a sports science or data analytics department for example.

Just my opinion but I think the criticism of Ashworth is a bit harsh

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

A DOF should be right across all of the academy stuff etc as well.

I have it from the horse's mouth that Moyes had no interest at all in the academy when he was here in his first spell.

I genuinely have no idea why people think he'd make the transition seemlessly.

Again, the role of a DOF is more than just transfers. Moyes didn't even negotiate transfers when he was here last time, Kenwright did all that.

we have an academy director, academy head of coaching and an academy head of recruitment. The DoF (whoever he is) being right across the academy basically extends to deciding if the academy director is doing a good job and replacing him if he isn't. That's it. And if it's not just that, we need to get rid of a redundant academy director role.

 

[COYBL25]

Nothing is a guarantee with anything in football. We've had a super scout, highly respected sporting director and then experienced director of football in the role whilst the squad has been getting worse and worse and results bottomed out. All, have had different job descriptions of whats expected of them and none have followed the same plan. Dan Ashworth was seen as the most sure thing in football by some until a year ago.

Moyes could be our DoF but I'm not sure everton necessarily need one.

in our case. Kev is a self described line manager for all the actual meaningful roles. That can, and probably will, be taken over by a new role like Technical/Sporting Director. Right now in the short term the only thing that needs covering under thelwells remit is whether players should be offered new contracts, squad planning and if Alcaraz should start another 6 games to pay 15 million. Moyes should be well versed enough to handle all of that and I'd rather his input on that over Thelwell in any case.

However at the same time, we had a meddling owner, who also had a self serving snake of an agent whispering in his ear all the time.

So we’ll never ever know how things would’ve panned out had Moshiri let everyone do their jobs without tying their hands behind their backs.

With regards to signing duds, every club signs a dud now and again, even the best run ones.

The difference with us, was that due to the financial mess Moshiri et al got us into, coupled with PSR, we ended up needing to get every single signing right.

You’ve got to say, that Thelwell did pretty well given all of the above.

 

[toffeeblue9]

we have an academy director, academy head of coaching and an academy head of recruitment. The DoF (whoever he is) being right across the academy basically extends to deciding if the academy director is doing a good job and replacing him if he isn't. That's it. And if it's not just that, we need to get rid of a redundant academy director role.

Thelwell was doing more than that. Read the Mark Douglas article on the wider strategy stuff.

 

[catcherintherye]

One of the weird things about WHU recruitment under Moyes was how badly they recruited in defense.

Moyes usually has an eye for a very good defender - which make me think there was a big DOF influence there.

I actually see Moyes being here now longer then his contract - providing all goes well day-day, after yesterdays announcement.

He talks like he will be doesn't he? Like he doesn't talk in ways that he's gone in 2 years. And look I know he's 61, but he's a very fit and healthy 61.

 

[Simon Buttle]

If you give him games hes scoring goals in my opinion.

He is never a long term option though, certainly not as a starter not if we have aspirations of climbing back towards the European places. If you want to go with him then the 3 in behind will need to be seriously good players who all regularly contribute. He makes for a good backup option though but I still think he might go in the summer tbh.

 

[Neiler]

He talks like he will be doesn't he? Like he doesn't talk in ways that he's gone in 2 years. And look I know he's 61, but he's a very fit and healthy 61.

He does mate, i see him here 4/5 years then i see him having a different role at the club in a technical capacity. 61 is no age really he will look at it at 65 id say, he's a football man.

Also seems to me the structures, seem to be gearing toward a long term infrastructure involving him - 3/5 years. I suspect he knew this coming into the position.

 

[maccavennie]

However at the same time, we had a meddling owner, who also had a self serving snake of an agent whispering in his ear all the time.

So we’ll never ever know how things would’ve panned out had Moshiri let everyone do their jobs without tying their hands behind their backs.

With regards to signing duds, every club signs a dud now and again, even the best run ones.

The difference with us, was that due to the financial mess Moshiri et al got us into, coupled with PSR, we ended up needing to get every single signing right.

You’ve got to say, that Thelwell did pretty well given all of the above.

I think in reality, his signings look a lot better under Moyes (O'Brien, Lindstrom, Beto) than they did for Dyche.

That doesn't make them the correct signings though imo. He needed to get players in who Dyche would utilise and he didn't and fortunately for us Moyes has come in and got a tune out of them and it all looks a lot rosier.

He didn't work well at all with Dyche (look at the length of time he pursued Danjuma and basically Dyche was having none of it)

The embarrassment of having Danjuma in the building but not signed, the Alcaraz deal having last minute hitches after the medical had been done 3 days before, Moyes saying we need 3 players and then something shifted where ( this is just my opinion ) I think Moyes thought the list of players Thelwell had come up with were simply not good enough.

I've never been a fan, I think the moment someone comes in with a 120 point plan, just sounds like a man with words and not actions ( a hybrid of David Brent and Brendan Rodgers ) In time it may turn out he's done a terrific job and of course he had huge constraints. But he never filled me with confidence that he was on the same page as Dyche and I think Moyes has made his mind up very quickly about him

It might be worth you asking Chris B what his rep was like inside FF, I think that will give people a sense if he had leadership skills and was respected within FF by all the staff. I'd be happy to bet £5 that he wasn't.

ps I do want to give him credit for signing Braiden Graham though and I like the recruitment of Clarke, Loney and Benjamin. There was an article though which mentioned we were right in the driving seat for Melia but we dithered and Spurs then stole a march on us.

 

[CielosGrises]

He's done a decent job in difficult circumstances - hopefully his replacement will do much better in better circumstances !

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

Yeah I’m sure Moyes can handle squad planning for the first team. But there are loads of other things a DOF does. Yes a DOF is essentially a “line manager” and there’s nothing wrong with that even though it doesn’t sound like a “proper football man” kind of job. But if KT is not doing it then someone will have to and I’m not sure if the right person for that is Moyes. He doesn’t have any experience overseeing an academy or a sports science or data analytics department for example.

Just my opinion but I think the criticism of Ashworth is a bit harsh

And I'm sure they'll find a person to oversee those departments. It could even fall on the CEO to just be the top boss. A director of football is typically a transfer guru type where we basically have been running a sporting director model anyway. The director of football portion with regards to recruitment though isn't exactly difficult for Moyes. He planned our squads years in advance when he was first manager. I wouldn't have him as a sporting director but if they wanted to give him a fancy title of director of football where he's planning what the Everton squad of 1, 2, 3 years time looks like, then he could do that job imo.

Fwiw our data analytics department is seen as top class and essentially has been running itself under Reeves for the past few years. A big part of why I didn't mind if thelwell stayed was that he essentially just left people alone to do their job. Nothing much is going to change day to day short term as the departments all manage themselves and then report to Thelwell. The only real thing that needs addressing is the expiring contracts, which should fall on Moyes to decide.

The Ashworth comment was more to say that Everton could hire whoever is seen as the most experienced man for the job and it not be the right organisational fit -Although I've never been high on him - just because someone has or hasn't done a role similar at other clubs doesn't mean they're right for us.

A lot of this is redundant until we know what structure we employ. I doubt TFG will have pivoted from being reluctant to hire moyes as Head Coach to letting him run all football operations within the space of 2 months anyway.

 

[Neiler]

He is never a long term option though, certainly not as a starter not if we have aspirations of climbing back towards the European places. If you want to go with him then the 3 in behind will need to be seriously good players who all regularly contribute. He makes for a good backup option though but I still think he might go in the summer tbh.

There is a lot to like mate, he might not be stylistically or reputationally everyone's cup of tea, but hes one goal of Doms season PL total for last year in 700 odd mins of football. If he can hit double figures for the season - that's goal dust in the PL and you don't loose those players.

Hes also giving defenders horrendous afternoons, that's telling.

What i wasn't to to do is build on our better and most effective players, to the point we ae questioning who should be in our starting 11.