Jordan Peterson Thread.

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Of course I believe in evolution. That has nothing to do with it. I'm just saying that these generalizations, such as the one you made, are not so clear cut. It is not clear exactly what skill set is required to fly a plane and how males/females overlap in these skills. And it is not clear if evolution versus socialization/education/cultural differences produced these (hugely overlapping) gender differences.

I know, which is why you don’t get 100% male and female domindated fields but there are trends that can be explained by theories and it is just that, a theory.
Are Socialisation and cultural differences forms of evolution though? Ie in most ledcs larger people are seen as more attractive, in part this is because it’s a sign of good nourishment, however in Medcs that’s not always the case as it’s a sign of poor health. So these social constructs have evolved over time?
 
I studied psychology at university, and was taught, if it matters, by a female lecturer about evolutionary differences between males and females about 5 years ago before all this came to light. So to just say because someone has a general view they are automatically ‘alt-right’ is a bit cras.

I may not have been explicit enough in stating that this doesn’t mean every man becomes a pilot and every woman becomes a health care professional however there are reasons why lots of men do maths (at school in my a level maths class of 18, 2 were ladies) and engineering and women more biological and healthcare degrees. I mean looking at the industry I work in, to be a qualified psychologist, a very nurturing and empathetic job, you need to apply for a doctorate. In 2016 82% of the applications were made by females with 18% males. Now why is this? Again, this isn’t a Jordan Peterson bandwagon argument, more what I was actually taught. Evolutionarily speaking Women on the whole are more nurturing because hundreds and thousands of years ago they tended to stay at home and raise offspring, while men went out as hunter gatherers. Over time this means they have developed more natural empathetic and caring skills than men and thus will be more suited to working in that environment. Again that doesn’t mean that every woman is like that but it illustrates why certain professions are dominated by certain genders.

Another theory that is worth a read is baron-Cohen’s (Not Sacha!) theory on autism and empathising vs systemising quotients. This shows why more men are diagnosed with autism than women and also goes some way to explaining why certain career avenues that involve more systematic ways of thinking eg engineering, aviation, maths etc... are more male dominated.
I am an engineer, the links being working out systems in the mechanical world, and working out systems in the human body are entirely relatable. You sound like a harry enfield sketch
 
so you made an assumption based on prejudice, okay dokie
No, I was very clear in Not stating in my original post that there are more women than men as doctors but in healthcare profession in general. Which holds true when you consider hcas, nurses, doctors, ots, social workers etc...
 
I am an engineer, the links being working out systems in the mechanical world, and working out systems in the human body are entirely relatable. You sound like a harry enfield sketch

Saying someone sounds like a Harry Enfield sketch is a bit unnecessary especially when I’m actually trying to convey my point in what I feel is an eloquent manner.
So why are there so many more male engineers than female engineers do you think?

so you made an assumption based on prejudice, okay dokie

Im not prejudice at all, I just think that a lot of the focus is being made on jobs where women are under represented whereas there are many jobs that are equally underrepresented by men that we don’t hear about.

I think what doesn’t help is that there are massive financial differences in the jobs where men and women are more represented. Ie where I work, a hospital, a female dominated environment, the average wage will be nowhere near that of an actuary firm, a more male dominated environment. And I feel that is in part where a problem lies.
 
I don't think it's mutually exclusive to say that there are biological differences between men and women that generally result in different interests and aptitudes (while knowing there are many, many specific exceptions), and also acknowledging that the historic treatment of women has probably skewed the results somewhat. It's worth encouraging women into fields like engineering and coding, very few people would argue otherwise, but we shouldn't be appalled if it still doesn't result in a 50/50 industry split
 
so you were wrong, and are now moving the goalposts


Well no because I said healthcare profession overall there are more women. I should have said being in a hospital or healthcare setting and not just ‘being a doctor’ I agree.

‘In the same way being a doctor is very caring and empathizing environment and that is a strong female trait evolutionarily speaking, hence more women in healthcare’
 
I don't think it's mutually exclusive to say that there are biological differences between men and women that generally result in different interests and aptitudes (while knowing there are many, many specific exceptions), and also acknowledging that the historic treatment of women has probably skewed the results somewhat. It's worth encouraging women into fields like engineering and coding, very few people would argue otherwise, but we shouldn't be appalled if it still doesn't result in a 50/50 industry split

I think most would agree, apart from things like parliament where there should be a good representation of all parts of society
 
Saying someone sounds like a Harry Enfield sketch is a bit unnecessary especially when I’m actually trying to convey my point in what I feel is an eloquent manner.
So why are there so many more male engineers than female engineers do you think?
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Why are there more white engineers than black ones in the top positions?

Any social restrictions there? Or so you have a evolutionary theory?
 
Why are there more white engineers than black ones in the top positions?

Any social restrictions there? Or so you have a evolutionary theory?

No theory here, Because 87% of the uk population classed themselves as white british? So therefore roughly 87% should be white British if there is equal selection.
 
I know, which is why you don’t get 100% male and female domindated fields but there are trends that can be explained by theories and it is just that, a theory.
Are Socialisation and cultural differences forms of evolution though? Ie in most ledcs larger people are seen as more attractive, in part this is because it’s a sign of good nourishment, however in Medcs that’s not always the case as it’s a sign of poor health. So these social constructs have evolved over time?

My point is that the theory of evolution does not as make tidy predictions about sex/gender differences in behavior as folks would like to think. There are other factors to consider outside of the realm of evolution.

Socialization/culture can be perceived as products of evolution, but there are some very key differences in the pace/rate of cultural change versus the pace/rate of change in biological traits. I'm not sure what "ledcs" and "medcs" are but yes, cultural preferences vary quite a bit; though again, the mechanisms underlying how cultural preferences change over time (evolve) are quite different from genetic evolution, so much so that drawing parallels between cultural and biological evolution might not be productive.

But this is getting away from the main point, which was that there are more male pilots than female pilots due to evolutionary differences between the sexes, which is something that is not supported by empirical research on sex/gender differences; it is only "supported" by appeal-to-common-sense characterizations of human evolution, and many of these characterizations are very weak on empirical evidence, and these characterizations are extremely weak (even if true) regarding how they map onto present-day gender differences in occupational choices and the skill-set differences that guide those choices.
 
You can argue semantics whichever way you want but its pretty clear men are favoured for most big roles and the old boys network rules supreme....
 
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