Jordan Peterson Thread.

[Prevenger17]

Lot of buzz around this chap, watched that interview there and enjoyed it. I agree with some stuff he says, disagree with others, mad that

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I must say that though I don't agree with everything Peterson says, I was incredibly impressed with his performance on Channel 4. The moment where he stumped the interviewer was fantastic

But at the same time, it shouldn't be about trying to stump each other

She made it combative from the very off. Why can't people just do an interview any more? Why can't person A ask a question, allow person B to answer, actually consider their answer without immediately trying to put words in their mouth and then ask another question in the same manner?

I've stopped watching most interviews now because they all follow this pattern. I blame people like Paxman for popularising the "joust" method of interviewing. With politicians it's the absolute worst, because they're naturally very guarded to begin with and the Paxman's of this world just force them to retreat into their shells even further, essentially making the whole interview worthless

Remember when interviewers would use active questioning to coax answers out of people rather than just attacking them head on?

 

[Brisan123]

That progressive agenda has made today's millennials, by and large, the shiftless, entitled brats they are. They're the product of an overprotective, bubble-wrapping train of thought that tells them they're all special, don't need to be accountable for their actions (because mummy and daddy will take care of everything) and can't fail. Then when real life comes up and hits them full in the face, they're not equipped to do anything about it except whine and stamp their feet. My late wife once worked with a friend who had a head-hunting firm, and the salary demands these kids made fresh out of school would make your head spin. "I want it all and I want it now; to hell with working for 30 years for it."
I'm 55, by the way, but I can still remember times in elementary school when other kids had to repeat an entire year because of their grades. Not today -- can't risk harming the little darlings' self-esteem. And what has that produced? A generation of functional illiterates. Case in point: My mother used to be an assistant professor of history at the local university. As I was a journalist (writer and copy editor) for 33 years, she thought I'd get a kick out of reading some of the papers written by her fourth-year students. I was appalled at how bad the grammar and use of proper punctuation was (and their laptops' spell-checker function obviously couldn't discern the proper use of their, there and they're; it's and its; and your and you're -- something that's sadly prevalent on here as well).
Winning and losing used to be things that taught you how to progress, to persevere. Not any more. Now everyone gets a participation trophy.

Well said sir and all true.
I’m a tradesman and have been involved in training apprentices for 35 years.
The difference in attitude in apprentices from the mid 80s to today is staggering
They want everything done for them , want cars and foreign holidays in their first year and think that sweeping the workshop , tidying up and running errands is beneath them
As you said they are the entitled generation.
When I divorced and eventually bought my own house my son said jokingly
“That’s great dad , now we will get two houses for our inheritance “
I politely told him
“You all have got your inheritance , a good education , a set of moral values , and a work ethic . What you do with them is up to you “

 

[neil999]

Well said sir and all true.
I’m a tradesman and have been involved in training apprentices for 35 years.
The difference in attitude in apprentices from the mid 80s to today is staggering
They want everything done for them , want cars and foreign holidays in their first year and think that sweeping the workshop , tidying up and running errands is beneath them
As you said they are the entitled generation.
When I divorced and eventually bought my own house my son said jokingly
“That’s great dad , now we will get two houses for our inheritance “
I politely told him
“You all have got your inheritance , a good education , a set of moral values , and a work ethic . What you do with them is up to you “

sweeping generalisation....

 

[SiEdmo]

Arghh you beat me to it!!!

BLAST

 

[longers]

Well said sir and all true.
I’m a tradesman and have been involved in training apprentices for 35 years.
The difference in attitude in apprentices from the mid 80s to today is staggering
They want everything done for them , want cars and foreign holidays in their first year and think that sweeping the workshop , tidying up and running errands is beneath them
As you said they are the entitled generation.

Do you think they all magically became like this ? It’s your wasteman generation who raised them lol

 

[Brisan123]

Do you think they all magically became like this ? It’s your wasteman generation who raised them lol

I raised 3 of them and they were never in the entitled generation

 

[canuckblue]

Here's what I mean:

I agree with him on his critiques of post-modernism. Many post-modern works are rife with nonsensical indigestible word-salad. Even in my own field a "po-mo" critique was launched against it, in the book "Primate Visions," which was a book that tried to put the science of animal behavior in a post-modern perspective. It failed. And one of my former colleagues wrote a review of the book, where he stated this:

"This is a book that contradicts itself a hundred times; but that is not a criticism of it, because its author thinks contradictions are a sign of intellectual ferment and vitality. This is a book that systematically distorts and selects historical evidence; but that is not a criticism, because its author thinks that all interpretations are biased, and she regards it as her duty to pick and choose her facts to favor her own brand of politics. This is a book full of vaporous, French-intellectual prose that makes Teilhard de Chardin sound like Ernest Hemingway by comparison; but that is not a criticism, because the author likes that sort of prose and has taken lessons in how to write it, and she thinks that plain, homely speech is part of a conspiracy to oppress the poor. This is a book that clatters around in a dark closet of irrelevancies for 450 pages before it bumps accidentally into its index and stops; but that is not a criticism, either, because its author finds it gratifying and refreshing to bang unrelated facts together as a rebuke to stuffy minds."

So, yeah, Peterson and I can agree (for the most part) that some post-modern critiques are unhelpful, non-contributory nonsense.

That's where we agree. Here's where we differ:

Peterson has about a 1 in 1000 chance of being asked by a student, "Excuse me, Professor Peterson, can you please use zhe and zher when you refer to me?"

But let's say he is asked. He now has a few options to choose from:

1) "Sure, I'll do that" (and think nothing more of it because it literally does not affect his life in any meaningful way)
2) "Sure, no problem" (and then have a laugh over it--perhaps even a mocking one--with is friends, and then think nothing more of it)
3) Compare the request for using "zhe/zher" with the death of 100 million people.

He chose option three, which says a lot more about his character and intellect then it does about the hypothetical audacious student who had the "effrontery" to make such a request.

As to canuckblue's statements about today's youth, here is what I mean:

In his own words:

"today's millennials, [are] by and large, the shiftless, entitled brats they are. They're the product of an overprotective, bubble-wrapping train of thought that tells them they're all special, don't need to be accountable for their actions (because mummy and daddy will take care of everything) and can't fail." Further, he suggested they are not responsible and play the "poor me, I'm the victim here" card.

I think his statement is an unhelpful and ridiculous generalization. It seems to suggest that easily-aggrieved spoiled, entitled children are a recent invention that only turned up in the last few decades due to a "progressive agenda" when in fact every generation has its share of entitled spoiled idiots (our current 71 year old president being one example) and its share of thoughtful hard-working individuals. Further, since time immemorial, the older generation has cast a judgmental and "we worked harder than thou" eye on the younger generation. Peterson is apparently doing it. Alan Bloom did it in the 80s. I seem to recall that WF Buckley did it in the 60s, and on back to Churchill and beyond. If anything, it seems to be a part of getting old to criticize the youth, rather than the youth actually doing something wrong. The youth of today, like every generation, are more quick to wave a fist in the air, or hold up a placard in support/opposition of some cause, or engage in some anti-establishment behavior. This is nothing new. But it is apparently a problem that gets old white guys very upset...and that's definitely something we can count on every generation.

Again, what's with the "old white guys" bit? Isn't it possible older folks of every race see the younger generation as having a much lower work ethic and higher sense of entitlement? Just stick to "older people" and leave it at that. And as an aside, I'd be curious to know how old you are. I've already said I'm 55, so I'd like to know from which generation you have formulated your viewpoint.

 

[verreauxi]

Again, what's with the "old white guys" bit? Isn't it possible older folks of every race see the younger generation as having a much lower work ethic and higher sense of entitlement? Just stick to "older people" and leave it at that. And as an aside, I'd be curious to know how old you are. I've already said I'm 55, so I'd like to know from which generation you have formulated your viewpoint.

I'm plenty old to have a viewpoint about the millenial generation...I'm 47. I've got plenty of experience dealing with them. And yes, all the people I listed in my post were white and older. This is not to say that non-whites can't complain about the younger generation--of course they can and do--but that's not what I was talking about.

You call them all spoiled entitiled brats, and I beg to differ.

 

[canuckblue]

I'm plenty old to have a viewpoint about the millenial generation...I'm 47. I've got plenty of experience dealing with them. And yes, all the people I listed in my post were white and older. This is not to say that non-whites can't complain about the younger generation--of course they can and do--but that's not what I was talking about.

You call them all spoiled entitiled brats, and I beg to differ.

I didn't call them ALL spoiled entitled brats. Remember, you quoted my words, "by and large" which clearly means there are exceptions, which I readily admit. However, in my current line of work I find they are the exception, sadly not the rule. Your experience has been obviously much different than my own, which doesn't make either viewpoint the more valid. We'll have to agree to disagree on this, which is OK by me.

 

[verreauxi]

I didn't call them ALL spoiled entitled brats. Remember, you quoted my words, "by and large" which clearly means there are exceptions, which I readily admit. However, in my current line of work I find they are the exception, sadly not the rule. Your experience has been obviously much different than my own, which doesn't make either viewpoint the more valid. We'll have to agree to disagree on this, which is OK by me.

Sounds good.

 

[Sarnia Kevin]

I like the guy although I don't agree with everything he stands for. On the pronoun issue though, he's not against people wanting to be referred to by any pronoun they want, but he is against it being made illegal not to refer to people by their preferred pronoun. Life is complicated enough without that!

 

[DanEFC92]

 

[coollino]

Well said sir and all true.
I’m a tradesman and have been involved in training apprentices for 35 years.
The difference in attitude in apprentices from the mid 80s to today is staggering
They want everything done for them , want cars and foreign holidays in their first year and think that sweeping the workshop , tidying up and running errands is beneath them
As you said they are the entitled generation.
When I divorced and eventually bought my own house my son said jokingly
“That’s great dad , now we will get two houses for our inheritance “
I politely told him
“You all have got your inheritance , a good education , a set of moral values , and a work ethic . What you do with them is up to you “

lol lollollollollollollol

 

[coollino]

Are older people bitter than younger person dare to ask for a higher than wage or something?