John Stones transfer saga

[jinkyali]

I dont understand this post. I need clarification.

You stated you believe Martinez has been on board with selling Stones all summer and that he will sell him late on.

Why would he? Its to no advantage to him personally at all.

 

[davek]

Well yes I see a developing chasm for sure. That's what worries me really. I know people don't like the idea of Moyes and Kenwright having a tumultuous relationship and think they were thick as thieves but I really think there were significant disagreement and argument there particularly over the summer. I imagine at least part of that was caused by Kenwright being dishonest to Moyes about the amount of money available. I suspect that this is what's happening with Martinez. While you have read into it that this means Martinez has had guarantees about the speed and amount generated by Stones, by own reading of it is that Kenwright probably gave Martinez some woolly guarantees that have yet to materialise. I personally think Martinez was looking to hold firm over Stones unless we got a seismic offer which we couldn't turn down (say in excess of 40).Obviously someone is giving Chelsea some encouragement behind the scenes. Chelsea are adopting an approach whereby they try to pressure us to force the sale through. It is suicide for us though. We are two days before the start of the season, we have two senior centre halves and we are discussing selling one of them for around his market value (which would be in normal circumstances around 30 million).

Exactly. The situation has been mishandled for us to arrive at where we are. The manager's face tells you all you need to know.

Your scenario makes sense too. It could well be that once Chelsea made enquiries the reaction of RM was "yes, but only if it's crazy cash" and then to plan for spending outside of that with the tv money that Vibrac would 'kindly' pass on after taking their cut. It seems to me though that if that was the plan/understanding then it's in tatters now. This board are going to avoid sanctioning cash until they know what's coming through the door and will see buying players now as a strengthening of Chelsea's position on Stones: that we'd need cash in to cover dipping into tv revenue (which is no doubt ear-marked *cough* 'elsewhere') and become desperate for a sale.

It's an absolute shambles; one that only the ball bags who run this club could engineer. I've said it before and I'll say it again: they have proven conclusively with this tv windfall cash and their spending that you can actually find someone who cant organise a piss up in a brewery.

 

[jinkyali]

Well yes I see a developing chasm for sure. That's what worries me really. I know people don't like the idea of Moyes and Kenwright having a tumultuous relationship and think they were thick as thieves but I really think there were significant disagreement and argument there particularly over the summer. I imagine at least part of that was caused by Kenwright being dishonest to Moyes about the amount of money available.

I suspect that this is what's happening with Martinez. While you have read into it that this means Martinez has had guarantees about the speed and amount generated by Stones, by own reading of it is that Kenwright probably gave Martinez some woolly guarantees that have yet to materialise. I personally think Martinez was looking to hold firm over Stones unless we got a seismic offer which we couldn't turn down (say in excess of 40).

Obviously someone is giving Chelsea some encouragement behind the scenes. Chelsea are adopting an approach whereby they try to pressure us to force the sale through. It is suicide for us though. We are two days before the start of the season, we have two senior centre halves and we are discussing selling one of them for around his market value (which would be in normal circumstances around 30 million).

Or...he is intent on finding the best way for his meagre budget. The type of player avaliable last two weeks August is completely different to in June and July. Believe me.

Last two weeks of August is a total different market to than the whole window. Prices go down. Players become available. Desperation kicks in. Deals get done.

The state of players bought in June and July are total different to last two weeks Aug.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

Seems people just can't help trying to stir things up regarding John Stones, Martinez and the club, with absolutely no evidence. In fact the only evidence so far points to the exact opposite of what these scaremongers are trying to portray.

It's all very odd to be honest and I'm not sure what they get out of this sort of nonsense.

 

[davek]

You stated you believe Martinez has been on board with selling Stones all summer and that he will sell him late on.

Why would he? Its to no advantage to him personally at all.

He's employed by the club. That's the advantage to him. He knows they sat tight last season and kept schtum when panic set in all around.

An understanding with them that if massive amounts came in for Stones then he'd have to be realistic is easily able to believe.

There's quid pro quo going on here...though as I said elsewhere, I can see that balance of forces now being severely tested.

 

[bluerobert]

Seems people just can't help trying to stir things up regarding John Stones, Martinez and the club, with absolutely no evidence. In fact the only evidence so far points to the exact opposite of what these scaremongers are trying to portray.

It's all very odd to be honest and I'm not sure what they get out of this sort of nonsense.

Cold hard cash mate for every click on a website and every paper they sell

 

[LinekersLegs]

apparently sky using the words "when" he goes - these media people know more than we give them credit for, they'll have been briefed he's off

They have probably also said "when" not "if" about Baines, Coleman and McCarthy...

 

[terraloon]

He's used the phrase "no intention" to sell Stones throughout. That's very specific. It means if circumstances change (IE the price rockets upward) a deal can be done.

It's inconceivable to me that at the back end of last season the manager hasn't been told how much he'd get to spend this summer and what he'd have to do to get it. A big spend like last summer was always going to be an outside bet, so Martinez must have known any rebuilding would have to be done also with sales (not necessarily Stones, but his was the name the market threw up because of lack of genuine interest for others...notably Mirallas). If that's the case then he'd have had a pretty small war chest to play with and would more than likely wait until the player sale to determine what resources went where. It makes perfect sense in those circumstances. The hold up though hadn't been reckoned with, and now we have a panic on our hands.

That manager did not look like a happy camper in today's press conference. I reckon a schism has materialised between people generally on the same page at the beginning of the window but who are now dancing to different tunes as we hurtle toward the season's KO.

For me the second paragraph, no matter how uncomfortable for some, hits the nail on the head

People have been sucked into believing that the 2013/14 accounts showed the club to be in a far healthier position and yes intheshort term the numbers appeared to show that but as I have said before the numbers were far too dependant on maintaining the TV monies and selling a player or two each year.

I have no doubt that there will be a small profit for 2014/15 but to achieve that and keep a eye on the PL version of FFP or more specifically the amount spent on wages there was always going to be a huge reliance on transfer income and or commercial income to frank the additions made 12 months to the squad and of course the larger contracts that were handed out.

Alas the transfer income in 2014/15 and to date in the current trading year is near enough non existent and as we all know the clubs commercial income fails to show the growth appropraite to a PL club.

All this that the club doesn't need to sale is to a degree correct but what is becoming more apparent is without a sale then the players needed to improve the squad won't materialise.

 

[jinkyali]

He's employed by the club. That's the advantage to him. He knows they sat tight last season and kept schtum when panic set in all around.

An understanding with them that if massive amounts came in for Stones then he'd have to be realistic is easily able to believe.

There's quid pro quo going on here...though as I said elsewhere, I can see that balance of forces now being severely tested.

I used to think your a wind up. I think your nuts now.

#conspiracy

 

[royalblue66]

its like being on suicide watch on here.

 

[The Esk]

Exactly. The situation has been mishandled for us to arrive at where we are. The manager's face tells you all you need to know.

Your scenario makes sense too. It could well be that once Chelsea made enquiries the reaction of RM was "yes, but only if it's crazy cash" and then to plan for spending outside of that with the tv money that Vibrac would 'kindly' pass on after taking their cut. It seems to me though that if that was the plan/understanding then it's in tatters now. This board are going to avoid sanctioning cash until they know what's coming through the door and will see buying players now as a strengthening of Chelsea's position on Stones: that we'd need cash in to cover dipping into tv revenue (which is no doubt ear-marked *cough* 'elsewhere') and become desperate for a sale.

It's an absolute shambles; one that only the ball bags who run this club could engineer. I've said it before and I'll say it again: they have proven conclusively with this tv windfall cash and their spending that you can actually find someone who cant organise a piss up in a brewery.

Pure conjecture Dave, unless you can prove otherwise there is no substance whatsoever to your claims.

 

[davek]

Pure conjecture Dave, unless you can prove otherwise there is no substance whatsoever to your claims.

That's why it was described as a scenario.

 

[The Esk]

That's why it was described as a scenario.

So you will agree with the following?

There is no firm evidence that Stones is going to Chelsea?

There is no evidence that Martinez has agreed that Stones can be sold above a certain price?

There is no evidence that the Board has agreed to sell Stones above a certain price?

 

[davek]

So you will agree with the following?

There is no firm evidence that Stones is going to Chelsea?

There is no evidence that Martinez has agreed that Stones can be sold above a certain price?

There is no evidence that the Board has agreed to sell Stones above a certain price?

Gladly.

I'm working off prior experience of the modus operani of that fine body of men known as The Everton Football Club Company Directors. I have no inside information.

..which is why I used language like 'for me', 'inconceivable to me' 'if that's the case' and 'scenario' in my postings.

 

[Jacko93]

I still don't understand how anyone believes the club driver non-sense.

"How are you today Mr. Distin?"

"I really hate Martinez, and so do loads of other players. Mind if I tell you about it?"

Its all a load of rubbish. If they have a club driver at the beck and call of the players, why is that Gibson, on one of injury layoffs, brought his mate over from Ireland, put him up and covered his expenses, purely so that this lad would drive him into Finch Farm everyday to get himself back to fitness. The lad would then sit at FF all day, waiting till he finished, then drove him back.

Maybe Everton thought this lad was a boss driver and kept him on...............