Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

[Cork Evertonian]

Just in case people have forgotten because i haven't.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

Earlier this week it was Fatah Day in Palestine - a day of celebrating the group's foundation. It's usually marked by rallies of the party faithful but this year the rallies were larger than usual with people being bussed in from other areas to boost numbers. There were also speeches, and interviews with local and international media. Fatah used the anniversary to promote its message against the backdrop of the battle/siege of Jenin which has been ongoing for a month, bringing the Fatah controlled PA bad publicity for the deaths of an elderly woman and a young man delivering groceries on his bike.

The criticism reached a crescendo with the death of a female 'journalist', with both sides blaming each other. The PA claim they had no-one in the area at the time but the girl's family are adamant they shot her. However it turns out her brother was killed in a shoot-out with the IDF last year, an event celebrated by his mother who said she was proud of him and he was "now on his way to Paradise". Al Jazeera have been embedded with the Jenin gunmen and interviewed the mother at length after her daughter's death. This week the PA banned Al Jazeera from the West Bank.

At least 3 PASF men have been killed during the Jenin conflict with up to 15 fighters dead and many arrested. Checkpoints have been set up all around the city - it was at one such checkpoint that the grocery delivery man was killed.

These are the key messages Fatah have been pushing:

The gunmen, mainly Islamic Jihad and Hamas, were described as terrorists - the first time the Palestinian leadership have used that word for any Palestinian fighters.
Hamas and Islamic Jihad have been doing the work of a foreign power - Iran - not the Palestinian people in both Gaza and the West Bank.
The disaster in Gaza is therefore their fault.
They failed because they didn't co-ordinate their attack (7/10) with the PLO.
Hamas were criticised for using hospitals for military purposes, including for “summonses, interrogations, and extortions” of the local population.
The Iranian regime will be destroyed by Israel and Trump, leaving Hamas supporters "no other choice than to become Palestinian" again.

This cartoon was typical of several published. It shows an Israeli tank advancing towards the West Bank after it has already crushed Gaza and Lebanon, with only Fatah left to stop it.
View attachment 289161


Hamas and IJ responded by calling the PA 'traitors' and 'doing the work of Zionists', and urged people to rise up against the PA and support the Jenin fighters. It's not happened.

But the barrage of publicity and silencing of Al Jazeera will do little to boost the popularity of the beleaguered PA. At the moment the consensus of the Palestinian people is that the (long overdue) operation in Jenin is merely an effort to curry favour with Trump, and an attempt to show that they can confront and control 'militants' and would therefore be able to do the same in Gaza if they are put in control (won't happen). Their relationship with the last Trump Administration broke down completely, resulting in the derailing of the PA's gravy train of US cash. The timing of their incursion into Jenin suggests this is the latest attempt to ingratiate themselves with the Orange One before he takes office.

As for the message they've been pushing, it would have more credibility if instead of whispering so that only the local population can hear it, they had been shouting it loudly to the world since 7/10/23. Anyone who doesn't understand how catastrophic Hamas and Islamic Jihad have been to the Palestinian cause and the Palestinian people is of no use to the Palestinian cause or the Palestinian people.

One of the speakers at the rally in Dublin a few months ago spoke about how Israelis and Palestinians are friends.

To say both people hate each other is too black and white an argument, and doesn't make allowances for the shades of grey etc.

It is Hamas who are trying to create a divide between the Israeli and Palestinian people, in their efforts to wipe Israel off the map.

That's another reason why Israel should be supported in this conflict. Why should Hamas be rewarded for their own actions by being given their own terrorist/apartheid state at the expense of the democratic Israel/Jewish state?

The one they are running at the moment is more than enough i say.

 

[WA Toffee]

I had a discussion with the Chat GPT AI software program about this conflict.

I asked the AI do you think Hamas are deliberately trying to get innocent civilians in Gaza killed?

Remember now this is an impartial AI software program and the AI said, that yes it is of the opinion that Hamas want to try and get as many innocent civilians killed as possible in an effort to demonize Israel.

It said it is of the opinion that Hamas conduct their operations out of schools and hospitals etc, and that Hamas are making avoiding civilian casualties as difficult as possible for Israel and the IDF.

Yeah, that is why no one is supporting Hamas

 

[Vintage]

I had a discussion with the Chat GPT AI software program about this conflict.

I asked the AI do you think Hamas are deliberately trying to get innocent civilians in Gaza killed?

Remember now this is an impartial AI software program and the AI said, that yes it is of the opinion that Hamas want to try and get as many innocent civilians killed as possible in an effort to demonize Israel.

It said it is of the opinion that Hamas conduct their operations out of schools and hospitals etc, and that Hamas are making avoiding civilian casualties as difficult as possible for Israel and the IDF.

Chatgpt isn't some sort of all knowing, unbiased God like entity.

It is trained by the company that runs it on information and also it's information that it gives you is taken from online sources, which are other people's opinions or what other people have wrote on the matter. It is also generally trained on material that can be a year old or more, so is not an ideal way getting contemporary information relating to current affairs.
Also, it's response can be biased somewhat from the wording or way a prompt is phrased.

Lastly, I find it very hard to believe it gave you its own opinion as you say. AI language models such as chatgpt are not supposed to give its 'personal' opinion or beliefs on a matter. I would love to see a screenshot of the response it gave you as it would mean you may have outfoxed an AI model to do something it's not supposed to.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

I had a discussion with the Chat GPT AI software program about this conflict.

The best one yet from this fella!

 

[NeroCeasar]

Chatgpt isn't some sort of all knowing, unbiased God like entity.

It is trained by the company that runs it on information and also it's information that it gives you is taken from online sources, which are other people's opinions or what other people have wrote on the matter. It is also generally trained on material that can be a year old or more, so is not an ideal way getting contemporary information relating to current affairs.
Also, it's response can be biased somewhat from the wording or way a prompt is phrased.

Lastly, I find it very hard to believe it gave you its own opinion as you say. AI language models such as chatgpt are not supposed to give its 'personal' opinion or beliefs on a matter. I would love to see a screenshot of the response it gave you as it would mean you may have outfoxed an AI model to do something it's not supposed to.

 

[Eidean]

What a forum.

Next someone will be asking it out for a beer.

 

[Toffeeslam]

What a forum.

Next someone will be asking it out for a beer.

Don’t be rude

For some folks on here chat GBT is their only friend…….

Not going to name names though but I think most know who I’m talking about

 

[cronullasharks]

 

[Eidean]

Sorry mate @Cork Evertonian

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Have we established that @Cork Evertonian has been posting babble from chatgpt? In other words, on the level of that obvious Chatgpt Russell Brand multi!

Amazing stuff.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Well the IRA were not the elected representatives of the Irish people. Hamas were elected into government in Gaza.

I don't want any innocent people being killed in any conflict both real and hypothetical.

Apologies mate, just noticed that I didn’t offer the courtesy of a reply.

Context is important here. The last election in Gaza was in 2006, was it? Since then Gazans have been denied the opportunity to ‘open’ elections. Reports around then suggested that the people were sick of the corruption of Fatah/PLO and saw Hamas as a possible avenue away from corruption and toward lasting peace. Israel also saw Hamas as a pathway away from Fatah and the PLOs grip on region.

Decent article here https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847

Prior to the 2006 election in order to appeal to the mainstream Palestinian position Hamas dropped from its manifesto any calls for the destruction of Israel and committed to “building a state within the boundaries of the occupied territories," to align with the hopes of the Gazan people for a two state solution. Why blame the people of Gaza for voting for this, or for Hamas actions in becoming de facto dictatorship once in power.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jan/12/israel

The findings in the link bellow are illustrative of the mind-set of voting Gazans at the time of the 2006 election. You’ll see that the general hope was for peace, respect for a state for Israel and one for Palestine.

https://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/236

I get your point that the IRA were not a political group but as there has been no election in Gaza since 2006 you cannot reasonably say that the people of Gaza have wanted Hamas in power beyond this. It’d be akin to saying that the people of Ireland supported the IRA because they didn’t rise up, and fight against a terrorist group positioning themselves as acting for the people of the republic. If the UK had levelled Dublin, Cork and other regions and all of the death that would have come with this, I for one would certainly not have supported that. I haven’t been for a while but Cork is a beautiful city and Irish folk, like people in general anywhere are filled with love, hopes, laughter and fears. Same as your man, woman or child on the street in Gaza.

 

[d34noj]

I get your point that the IRA were not a political group but as there has been no election in Gaza since 2006 you cannot reasonably say that the people of Gaza have wanted Hamas in power beyond this.

As of March 2024.

Fifty-nine percent of all Palestinians thought Hamas should rule Gaza, and 70 percent were satisfied with the role Hamas has played during the war.

Taken from this poll.

Also worth noting, 81% of Gazans watched the videos of the October 7th attacks and believe they didn't commit atrocities - whereas an astonishing 97% didn't watch, and believe no atrocities were committed.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

As of March 2024.

Fifty-nine percent of all Palestinians thought Hamas should rule Gaza, and 70 percent were satisfied with the role Hamas has played during the war.

Taken from this poll.

Also worth noting, 81% of Gazans watched the videos of the October 7th attacks and believe they didn't commit atrocities - whereas an astonishing 97% didn't watch, and believe no atrocities were committed.

The reality is that beyond what the people voted for in 2006, there has been no general election, and Hamas is embedded in a dictatorial role. I do not blame the people for this, nor for how Iran capitalised on the situation.

The situation in Gaza is a complete mess, but as is the case most of the time, it's not the man in the street's fault, but it is them that pay. Hamas and Israel intentionally polarise for their aims, not the people. And this ground has been left to evolve regarding Hamas grip since 2006.

To my mind, there is no excuse for murdering civilians. I do not want to see that anywhere.

 

[d34noj]

The reality is that beyond what the people voted for in 2006, there has been no general election, and Hamas is embedded in a dictatorial role. I do not blame the people for this, nor for how Iran capitalised on the situation.

The situation in Gaza is a complete mess, but as is the case most of the time, it's not the man in the street's fault, but it is them that pay. Hamas and Israel intentionally polarise for their aims, not the people. And this ground has been left to evolve regarding Hamas grip since 2006.

To my mind, there is no excuse for murdering civilians. I do not want to see that anywhere.

I agree with all of the above, I'm simply showing Hamas has unwavering support over Palestine, regardless of whatever atrocities they perpetrate.

This is the level of brainwashing the world is up against.