Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

[longers]

Yup. Dont believe anything she says. Dont get me wrong it's good and heart warming that she's free but she is nothing but a pawn for those terrorists who released her.

Whilst I agree there is a possibility she may be making it sound better than it was... the fact is you don't really know that and by saying with authority that she is lying you're then pushing alternative propaganda based on nothing but feels.

 

[Martin Alvito]

I find it genuinely upsetting that in this day and age the emotive propaganda, especially the use of the word 'nazi' in the context it is, to use the holocaust 'imagery' to garner support and deflect from Israel's own inhumanity.
How, really, are we where we are as a community across the world, when this sort of behaviour isn't immediately called out by so called 'leaders'?
It's sickening, very, very sickening.

We aren't a community any more, at least in the West. Almost every Western democracy has become a house sharply divided against itself, where this sort of rhetoric has become normalized.

It's worse in Israel for a reason. Most any country that is marginalized regionally and by the international system gravitates to more radicalized behavior, rather than less. Israel, South Africa and North Korea all violated the Non-Proliferation Treaty. Cuba hasn't moved much over time. Pariah states are dangerous because they have clear security challenges and little to lose from extreme behavior in addressing them.

Imagine wanting someone sacked or forced out for telling the truth….

Now that's just normal behavior. Doesn't matter whether it's business or politics. There are always ugly truths it benefits no faction to air, which is why integrity is a rare commodity.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

I find it genuinely upsetting that in this day and age the emotive propaganda, especially the use of the word 'nazi' in the context it is, to use the holocaust 'imagery' to garner support and deflect from Israel's own inhumanity.
How, really, are we where we are as a community across the world, when this sort of behaviour isn't immediately called out by so called 'leaders'?
It's sickening, very, very sickening.

Yes, I really don't like the way such terns are cast around in general so easily, but specifically in the context of this conflict and wider debate.

Including by one of the contributors to this thread. The really thick one.

 

[tsubaki]

We aren't a community any more, at least in the West. Almost every Western democracy has become a house sharply divided against itself, where this sort of rhetoric has become normalized.

It's worse in Israel for a reason. Most any country that is marginalized regionally and by the international system gravitates to more radicalized behavior, rather than less. Israel, South Africa and North Korea all violated the Non-Proliferation Treaty. Cuba hasn't moved much over time. Pariah states are dangerous because they have clear security challenges and little to lose from extreme behavior in addressing them.


Now that's just normal behavior. Doesn't matter whether it's business or politics. There are always ugly truths it benefits no faction to air, which is why integrity is a rare commodity.

I think the difference between SA and NK and the current Israeli government is that the former had / have a much safer strategic position.

As for the language used, it’s way above what we normally see, especially for comments that were mostly a statement of fact.

How this affects negotiations for supplies to enter Gaza is anyone’s guess, though it might be worth remembering that there have been a lot of escalators actions carried out by (or suspected to have been carried out by) the Israeli government when talks around deescalation come up.

The direction the west (especially the EU) are going down, far too slowly, is clearly that of the siege being lifted, which means sage areas, which means ceasefires.

 

[Martin Alvito]

I think the difference between SA and NK and the current Israeli government is that the former had / have a much safer strategic position.

As for the language used, it’s way above what we normally see, especially for comments that were mostly a statement of fact.

How this affects negotiations for supplies to enter Gaza is anyone’s guess, though it might be worth remembering that there have been a lot of escalators actions carried out by (or suspected to have been carried out by) the Israeli government when talks around deescalation come up.

The direction the west (especially the EU) are going down, far too slowly, is clearly that of the siege being lifted, which means sage areas, which means ceasefires.

I agree with respect to the current rhetoric. However, I think the trend line has been headed that way for some time now. More extreme behavior (eg: the settlements) and bellicose rhetoric that vilifies any opposition usually go hand in hand.

Israel has a safer position with respect to its neighbors and the big fish in the system than SA/NK, but I wouldn't say its people feel safe. That's what Netanyahu has been leveraging to win elections. It's what the hard right in America, and in other countries, have leveraged. There's a very ugly thread of racial politics that has become salient and more mainstream in a lot of democracies, in recent years.

 

[davek]

Doctors in Gaza say patients arriving at hospitals are showing signs of disease caused by overcrowding and poor sanitation. Nahed Abu Taaema, a public health doctor at Nasser hospital in Khan Younis, spoke to Reuters and cited “the crowding of civilians and the fact that most schools used as shelters are housing lots of people, it’s a prime breeding ground for disease to spread.”

In the temporary shelters where displaced Palestinians are crowding with their families hoping for safety from Israeli bombs, people are starting to suffer from stomach complaints, lung infections and rashes, said Abu Taaema.

One woman staying at a UN shelter, Sojood Najm, told Reuters: “It’s hot in the tent under the midday sun and there are insects and flies. At night it’s cold and there aren’t enough blankets for everyone. The children are all sick. Some are coughing, some have runny noses, some have fevers at night.”

Utter 'kin beasts.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Ch4 news saying 700 killed in the last 24 hours!

Also, looking at the footage of those grieving over the dead you can see waves of those who will be willing to do anything for some kind of revenge. Horrible to say but if you've just buried your family some will look for peace but others vengeance. This terrible situation is getting worse every day.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Ch4 news saying 700 killed in the last 24 hours!

Also, looking at the footage of those grieving over the dead you can see waves of those who will be willing to do anything for some kind of revenge. Horrible to say but if you've just buried your family some will look for peace but others vengeance. This terrible situation is getting worse every day.

Exactly - all this to get rid of hamas and yet you create another.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

In addition from the son of a Hamas Leader…

“ He also said the group initiates war with the Israelis every few years when they 'need money'.

'This war, Israel did not start. Hamas started this war. Hamas, blood for money, they start a war every few years when they want money they shed children's blood and this has to stop. This has to stop. It has to come to an end.

'Unfortunately the price is not going to be cheap.

'I feel very sorry for Israel that they have to go into Gaza where there are booby traps all over the place...I don't know how many Israeli soldiers have to die in order to destroy Hamas.'

Yousef then appeared on Fox News, where he said the group is 'more dangerous' than ISIS.

'Look at the division and the global confusion because of Hamas. They brought us to our knees somehow by their brutality and their barbarism. Brutality is even understating Hamas' acts.

'Hamas is a religious movement, and they are a raging religious movement against Israel. The mainstream media cannot say this because they are afraid to ignite a religious war.”…..

Still avoiding the questions

 

[davek]

Ch4 news saying 700 killed in the last 24 hours!

Also, looking at the footage of those grieving over the dead you can see waves of those who will be willing to do anything for some kind of revenge. Horrible to say but if you've just buried your family some will look for peace but others vengeance. This terrible situation is getting worse every day.

It won't be just Hamas in those tunnels waiting to come out and face the IDF, thats for sure.

There's going to be a lot of Israeli servicemen's families recieving body bags back when the incursion begins.

 

[tsubaki]

It won't be just Hamas in those tunnels waiting to come out and face the IDF, thats for sure.

There's going to be a lot of Israeli servicemen's families recieving body bags back when the incursion begins.

I would imagine today will have been the last time a former hostage is allowed to speak to the media freely.

 

[davek]

I would imagine today will have been the last time a former hostage is allowed to speak to the media freely.

Yep.

The Israelis don't care about them, despite all their bollocks about being outraged by October 7th.

 

[Wat Tyler]

I would imagine today will have been the last time a former hostage is allowed to speak to the media freely.

Apparently it will be.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

It won't be just Hamas in those tunnels waiting to come out and face the IDF, thats for sure.

There's going to be a lot of Israeli servicemen's families recieving body bags back when the incursion begins.

One fella was burying over ten of his family. How do you reconcile that!

 

[Martin Alvito]

Exactly - all this to get rid of hamas and yet you create another.

They probably already have, while barely scratching Hamas. Remember the 10:1 rule. Hamas probably has 50,000 under arms. Kill 5,000 civilians, and even if they never harm another and wipe Hamas out, the problem comes back within a few years.

That's why current Israeli policy is absolute madness. Setting aside morality for a minute, everything we know about insurgency says they're making things worse, not better, for themselves. It's also a PR fiasco the Israeli government doesn't need, that flips Western voters' views of the conflict every day.

Add morality back into the equation, and it's clear enough that this is the short-term thinking of people who don't think they'll ever have to answer to anyone else for what they've done. Why should they? They don't answer to themselves.