Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

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Indeed, the USA are basically saying keep out, but if Iran were to do anything the USA and Israel would be more than happy to bomb the crap out of them, and they know it…hence the got nothing to do with us line……
Hate to say it. Checking war blogs locally everyone believes Iran is the big dog pulling the strings and will be dealt with. This will be ugly for a long time.
 
I think you may be surprised. Egypt wants nothing to do with it, nor Jordan. Hezbollah may wish to from Lebanon but that would be the end of them, Syria has enough going on. Saudi wants to deal with Israel so won’t get involved. It’s Iran and only Iran trying to stir this up, but most Arab countries do not trust or indeed hate Iran. Iran will not publicly show its face or intentions because it knows it would face massive retaliation from both Israel and the USA …Iran likes to pull other groups strings…..

pete I urge you to go and read local press and the statements of the leadership - none of this is true
 
I think you may be surprised. Egypt wants nothing to do with it, nor Jordan. Hezbollah may wish to from Lebanon but that would be the end of them, Syria has enough going on. Saudi wants to deal with Israel so won’t get involved. It’s Iran and only Iran trying to stir this up, but most Arab countries do not trust or indeed hate Iran. Iran will not publicly show its face or intentions because it knows it would face massive retaliation from both Israel and the USA …Iran likes to pull other groups strings…..
Iran attacked Saudi Arabia in 2019 so no love there at all.
 
A smoking gun to be sure.

I don't agree with the attribution to Iran by the way, as he says elsewhere all competent militaries (and security forces generally) do that sort of thing; if anything it shows how carefully they (Hamas) have worked things out in advance.

As an aside, I do think he's right that one outcome of this should be wider gun ownership in Israeli society
 
I don't agree with the attribution to Iran by the way, as he says elsewhere all competent militaries (and security forces generally) do that sort of thing; if anything it shows how carefully they (Hamas) have worked things out in advance.

As an aside, I do think he's right that one outcome of this should be wider gun ownership in Israeli society
Years in advance it seems. I try to flow with this site and how people perceive things with what information is being shared from members careful not to over step. Funny, as most Countries do not allow gun ownership and perhaps Israelis will review and implement this in the future.
 
Last Tuesday my wife wrote this for one of the NGOs that we support. It has since been picked up and published elsewhere so she's allowed me to translate it and post it on here, minus the opening section which contained personal details of the events of 7th October. I've added a few explanatory notes at the end.

It's probably too long to post on here, but some people may be interested enough to plough through it. Obviously there have been developments since.



My father was a teacher, a school principal in the West Bank who campaigned for a peaceful two-state solution. He died 15 years ago and I am actually relieved that he left this earth before he had to watch Hamas slaughter his dream, and then proudly upload videos of their atrocities for all the world to see.

Following the events of 7th October the world should now recognise Hamas as terrorists who have committed depraved atrocities that would even make ISIS blush. But the people of Gaza already knew them. They have been suffering in silence under these monsters for years. Even those who hated Hamas chanted their allegiance to them, in fear of their lives and their family’s lives.

Two things were immediately noticeable following the attacks: the attempts of Hamas to portray its massacres as the beginning of the Islamic redemptive battle for Palestine; and the quick, enthusiastic response by many pro-Palestinian activists, both in the Middle East and the West, both religious and secular.

In the UK I've seen people on the streets celebrating the massacres - they are not only racists but very, very stupid racists, even by racist standards. “Free Palestine!” they chant - for Hamas and the Islamic Republic of Iran, freeing Palestine simply means the total eradication of Israel without qualification. Hamas is explicit in its intention to murder the Jewish population of Israel and enslave any survivors; its partisans in the Middle East and the West are coyer on this point.

As the brave Palestinian peacemaker Mohammed Dajani, who has survived an assassination attempt and, like my father, lost his educational job due to his activities, says, “People outside the region could play a very big role in exporting to us the concepts of reconciliation and peace, rather than inflaming the conflict in supporting one side against the other.” Every terrorist attack, successful or foiled, is a backward step on the road to peace.

I see glib and cruel comments from people declaring themselves “pro-Israel" or "pro-Palestine,” as if it is a football match. Are you wearing a blue shirt or red?
I am wearing neither. I am in black.
I am in mourning for the lost Israeli and Palestinian lives.
I am in mourning for the Palestine that could have been, for the Gaza that could have been, with a gorgeous waterfront overlooking the Mediterranean Sea, with fertile soil that once sustained ancient olive groves, with a land rich with resources for success.

Back in 2005, to international applause, Israeli PM Sharon ordered the withdrawal of all Israeli soldiers and settlers from the Gaza Strip. 17 settlements were abandoned - soldiers went from house to house removing entrenched settlers. This historic decision meant that Palestinians could finally determine the fate of Gaza.

Gaza was flooded with funding. Generous governments, Arab and Western, corporations, nonprofits, and individuals have donated billions of dollars for decades. The opportunity was there to develop a potential tourist industry, build hospitals, schools and industries to help the Gazan people thrive. They could have built new towns with spacious housing rather than luxury villas for themselves and their criminal cronies. And yes, they could even have built bomb shelters for the people rather than hundreds of miles of tunnels for their own exclusive use.

But Hamas rejected that path. Despite the departure of the Israelis, it kept up its attacks on Israel, hitting the Gaza-Israel crossing points multiple times in the first six months after withdrawal. These crossing points were vital for the flow of goods and people into and out of Gaza, benifitting Palestinians, not Israelis. Yet Hamas’s attacks led Israel to reduce the number of crossing points from six to two. The people of Gaza were already paying the price for Hamas’s actions.

Despite these attacks, Israel did not impose a blockade on Gaza until Hamas’s takeover of the strip in 2007. A year earlier, Hamas had defeated its rival Fatah in an election, but because it refused to accept the conditions of the Quartet (the EU, Russia, the UN and the US) - to renounce violence, accept the Oslo accords, and recognise Israel - Washington and most European countries refused to deal with Hamas. Then, in June 2007, Hamas ousted the Palestinian Authority and Fatah in a violent coup, seizing Gaza’s governing institutions and causing Israel to close border crossings, as well as air and sea access to the strip. Once more, the people suffered and the opportunity for a prosperous Gaza disappeared.

Over the following decades the Hamas leadership remained intransigent in its positions, even turning down foreign aid that might undermine its authority. Consequently, the people of Gaza continued to suffer. Many of them have had enough - in the last few years more than 60,000 people have fled, and in all 12% of the population have fled since Hamas seized power 15 years ago. Some go to Israel and Egypt for medical treatment and don't go back. Others pay bribes of thousands of dollars to Hamas police at the Rafah border crossing with Egypt. Sums as high as $10,000 dollars and more are paid to smugglers for perilous journeys to Europe.


Hamas and the other Palestinian armed groups that committed the massacres in southern Israel understood that Israel would retaliate in a catastrophic manner. Despite this, they proceeded with their attack. These groups show no regard for the lives of their own people or for human life in general. The ordinary people serve as human shields while the few leaders that live in Gaza cower in reinforced underground tunnels, while others live a life of luxury in Qatar and Turkey. Hamas have a different criteria to normal people - their tactic is to emerge from their underground shelters into the rubble and say, "We won!" They then agree a 'hudna' with Israel and begin preparations for their next war.

Today, the deputy chairman of Hamas was forced to admit that atrocities were committed during their invasion. He claims, though, that this was not the work of Hamas but the actions of ordinary Gazans who "tagged along" with Hamas forces and committed crimes which are "against Hamas principles." This is a shameful attempt to shift the blame from himself and his organisation onto the Palestinian population. Even if there is just a shred of truth in his claim, the responsibility still lies with Hamas - decades of relentless dehumanising anti-Jewish propaganda through the religious establishment, media, education, etc. would have a corroding effect on even the most saintly of people.

Let's be clear:
Hamas are not freedom fighters, they are a blood cult following a perversion of Islam.
They have brought shame upon the Palestinian people.
They have damaged the Palestinian cause, possibly irreparably.
They have ensured that the "land for peace" policy is now completely dead, and that there is now little hope of an independent Palestinian state in my lifetime, if ever.


I've seen the usual politicians, now thankfully returned to the margins, being mealy-mouthed, and the BBC unable to call people who commit acts of terror, 'terrorists'. The reality is that Hamas is no liberation movement in search of a Palestinian state. Instead, it seeks the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic empire on its ruins. How do we know? Because their leaders say so, including senior member Mahmoud al-Zahar:

"Islamic and traditional views reject the notion of establishing an independent Palestinian state… In the past, there was no independent Palestinian state… This is a holy land. It is not the property of the Palestinians or the Arabs. This land is the property of all Muslims in all parts of the world. Therefore our main goal is to establish a great Islamic state, be it pan-Arabic or pan-Islamic".


In the aftermath of the massacre, speaking from the comfort of his office in Qatar, Hamas’s leader Ismail Haniyeh reiterated those views and praised the actions of the terrorists. He asserted, “This battle is not only for the Palestinian people or only for Gaza. Gaza is merely the lever of resistance, . . . but since this is about al-Aqsa mosque, it is the battle of the Islamic nation. I call upon all the nation’s children, no matter where they are, to join the fight of the men who are writing history with their blood and their rifles.”

Haniyeh, who cultivates a smart-suited, presidential image, let his mask slip completely when he finished by triumphantly shouting, "Get out of our faces, get out of our land!"

He managed to cram into his 15 minute speech every moral and political slogan and symbol the Arab and Muslim masses generally associate with the Palestinian cause, drawing on the well-established tradition of legitimising all forms of violence against Israel.


The assumption that Israel could live with Hamas through agreed 'hudnas' and manage periodic conflicts with it has been shattered. In the aftermath of Saturday's attacks a Hamas spokesman boasted on TV of how they had duped Israel:
“In the past couple of years, Hamas has adopted a ‘rational’ approach. It did not go into any war and did not join Islamic Jihad in its last battle," (its missile assault on Israel in August 2022). “We made them think Hamas was busy with governing Gaza, and that it wanted to focus on the 2.5 million Palestinians there, and had abandoned the resistance altogether. All the while, under the table, we were preparing for this big attack.”

The days of 'hudna' and 'tahdi'a' are over - they can not and will not happen again. Israel's long-standing tendency to run away from in-depth discussions, formulating strategies and especially from decisions in the Palestinian context is surely over, for better or worse.


Dreadful days, weeks and months lie ahead. Israel's inevitably draconian response and Hamas’s conscious effort to embed itself in population centres all but guarantees that many innocent Gazans will be killed and injured. That is a tragedy, but not for Hamas. It actively seeks such casualties to stigmatise Israel and to pile international pressure on them. The terrible reality is that for the Israeli military to root out Hamas’s military infrastructure and leadership the cost will be high both for Gazans and for Israeli soldiers.

At the moment I see no way to avoid a catastrophe. The unconditional release of hostages and the demilitarization of Gaza could avoid further devastation, but both are unlikely to happen. Hamas and its backers in Tehran will resist these steps, but Western governments, the UN, and especially Arab states that have a direct stake in Gaza’s future, should exert strong pressure on them. As the fate of the strip becomes increasingly grim, Arab leaders in particular could embrace demilitarization as a way to save the Palestinians of Gaza.

But all wars eventually come to an end, preferably quickly and with as little bloodshed as possible. It may well be that, at high cost, Israel will succeed in their aim of rooting out the Hamas leadership, decapitating it, and destroying its military infrastructure. Should it accomplish those tasks, Israel will not want to stay in Gaza, and will look to turn over governance of the territory to someone else, possibly a transitional authority under an international umbrella. Who would form such an authority? What role would the UN play? Is there some combination of regional and non-regional actors who could assume responsibilities? What about the PA?

I suspect there will be little faith in Israel of the UN's capabilities given their performance in Lebanon and the dubious role of UNRWA in Gaza.

The PA will not want it to seem that it returned to Gaza on the back of Israeli tanks, but if asked by the UN to play a role it might do so, especially if given cover by Arab nations.

A combination of Arab nations could provide a temporary answer, with Egypt’s proximity and history of occupying Gaza from 1946 -67 making it an obvious candidate, while the UAE have several times attempted to provide aid to Gaza may also be willing to take part. The Saudis may see it as a way to increase their influence in the region, while Qatar, who have funded the Hamas government for many years, would likely be popular amongst Gazans. Turkey, who host several Hamas leaders, may also be keen to take part.

And then what? Hamas and Islamic Jihad may well be destroyed but it must be understood that the Islamist movement is an intrinsic part of Palestinian politics, with support of around 33% according to most experts, though I suspect its lower. Whatever the figure they are entitled to their views and entitled to play a role - if peaceful - in deciding Palestine's future.

Former UK PM Tony Blair articulated the view of many in the West when he wrote, "Islamism is a long-term structural challenge because it is an ideology utterly inconsistent with modern societies based on tolerance and secular government." However, the example of Ra'am, the Islamist party that successfully joined an Israeli government, shows that with brave, positive leadership and goodwill on all sides it is not impossible for an Islamist party to play a constructive role in a modern, Western-style democracy. Such leadership has seldom been seen in both Israel and Palestine, and Ra'am leader Mansour Abbas may be the exception that proves the rule, but Ra'am's example does provide a glimmer of hope for the future.

There are far more questions than answers for what would follow the displacement of Hamas from Gaza. But these questions remind us that at some point this war will end, and that there will be a day after, and that ultimately a better future must be built for the ordinary Palestinians of Gaza themselves, who have suffered for so long under Hamas control.

Finally, Gaza for me will always be a place that brings back golden memories of childhood holidays. For a girl from the desert, running across the beach to paddle in the blue Mediterranean Sea was paradise! I live in hope that one day in the future other young and carefree Palestinian girls from Jericho, Jaba, or Jenin will be able do the same.



Notes
The 'other armed groups' which took part in the massacres were Islamic Jihad, Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Palestinian Mujahideen Movement, Popular Resistance Committees, the Gazan branch of Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. This is based on often gruesome videos released by the groups boasting of their roles. There were likely more groups but they haven't yet posted.

'hudna' and 'tahdi'a' - both words mean a period of calm or quiet. They refer to unofficial agreements between Israel and Hamas which saw Israel provide economic improvements, such as allowing 18,500 Gazans to work in Israel, in return for Hamas promising not to launch missiles at Israel. The Israeli political and military establishment believed that Hamas’s interest in maintaining their economy - and the need for Gazans to work in Israel - gave them a stake in preserving relative calm with Israel and avoiding major conflicts.
According to the Political Theology of Islam, tahdi'a is a temporary period of peace after a period or periods of war. When the time of calmness (tahdi'a) or the time of hudna ends, war will resume because jihad is a constant process of being at war. The time of peace is for preparation for war, according to most Arab-Muslim scholars.
 
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