Is the 442 Formation Hopelessly Outmoded?

[Eggsyblueskin]

Like the old Pyramid formation the 442 became for a period the ubiquitous set up in football.
It is arguable that many of the current successful formations were devised to defeat the best practitioners of the 442.
Today it’s leading exponents are probably Simeone and our own Ancelotti.
I realise no two managers use the same iteration of the tactic and each will infuse it with their own variations but as with any formation it retains its own limitations (and benefits).
For me it seems akin to digging First World War trenches to face the Blitzkrieg attack of the modern tacticians.
Can it still bring consistent success?
I’m sceptical.

 

[ToffeeTim]

It can work extremely well with the right personnel. But you need 2 top quality, aggressive, mobile midfielders.

I like 2 strikers as much as possible

 

[The binman chronicles]

Doesn't Carlo want 442 in attack and 451 when defending?

 

[dublinbluenose]

Formations are generally irrelevant, the best 11 players with the greater ability and motivation win games.

Formations can, in one off matches and for specific reasons, can sometimes be effective but generally the best players over come them.

 

[chrismpw]

Mike Bassett was a fan.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Formations are generally irrelevant, the best 11 players with the greater ability and motivation win games.

Formations can, in one off matches and for specific reasons, can sometimes be effective but generally the best players over come them.

I don’t think this is correct the formation is the framework within which the players perform , its the skeleton of the team.
Otherwise we’d still have the Pyramid and Centre Backs would still be Centre Halves,

 

[Tommy Pistachio]

It can work extremely well with the right personnel. But you need 2 top quality, aggressive, mobile midfielders.

I like 2 strikers as much as possible

What he said!

Any system can work in football with the right players. Most "modern" systems now utilise 3 central midfielders so to avoid an overload your centre mids need to be able to cover enough ground. Not ideal with our current personnel!

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Doesn't Carlo want 442 in attack and 451 when defending?

I think he uses many variations of it but he generally builds on a 442.

 

[dead_soft]

Like the old Pyramid formation the 442 became for a period the ubiquitous set up in football.
It is arguable that many of the current successful formations were devised to defeat the best practitioners of the 442.
Today it’s leading exponents are probably Simeone and our own Ancelotti.
I realise no two managers use the same iteration of the tactic and each will infuse it with their own variations but as with any formation it retains its own limitations (and benefits).
For me it seems akin to digging First World War trenches to face the Blitzkrieg attack of the modern tacticians.
Can it still bring consistent success?
I’m sceptical.

The 4-4-2 became very outdated because of its rigidity, it relied on straight lines, and was very easy to overcome when 4-5-1 became the vogue formation (Moyes and Mourinho being two who got a lot of success out of it) though this lead to a lot of dull games of football. Where it actually has some success is its ability to be flexible with the right players - 4-4-2 can become a 4-5-1 or a 4-3-3. English football made 4-4-2 a fashionable tactic but then refused to do anything but play it in a very rigid 'English' style which is why, I think, a lot of people think it is so outdated.
Also, if your players are as thick as ours appear to be at times, a simple 4-4-2, you stand here and let the slightly clever ones do the other stuff, can work wonders.
I mean, it's not yet, but who knows?

 

[OneTrueLegend]

I think to play we would need to essentially play 2 holding central midfielders and the attacking threat would come from wide areas, there may be some teams we can be more attacking against. But we don't have central midfielders capable of doing it at the moment I think we looked better playing 451 against Sheffield United. I guess we will see who we buy in the window

 

[Lanolin]

Formations are generally irrelevant, the best 11 players with the greater ability and motivation win games.

Formations can, in one off matches and for specific reasons, can sometimes be effective but generally the best players over come them.

Mad that teams still have them then really isn’t it?

 

[ToffeeTim]

What he said!

Any system can work in football with the right players. Most "modern" systems now utilise 3 central midfielders so to avoid an overload your centre mids need to be able to cover enough ground. Not ideal with our current personnel!

If you have Scholes and Keane you play 442

If you have Delph and Davies, or something like that, then you're gonna struggle playing 442 against good teams.

 

[TheBigIguana]

It is pretty close. At least playing it exactly like it was played in the 80s and 90s is. You can do things with the wingers to make it work still but then it isn't totally a 4-4-2.

It is still a strong defensive shape though. You certainly can defend 4-4-2 and be damn good. It is with the ball that the issues lie.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

It can work extremely well with the right personnel. But you need 2 top quality, aggressive, mobile midfielders.

I like 2 strikers as much as possible

I agree about the two strikers.
It is noticeable however hardly any successful managers now utilise this formation.

 

[dublinbluenose]

I don’t think this is correct the formation is the framework within which the players perform , its the skeleton of the team.
Otherwise we’d still have the Pyramid and Centre Backs would still be Centre Halves,

I think having great players who force opponents into a change is much more of an influence on changes to formations down through the years.

When full backs started to become small and fast back at the end of the 50's early 60's the inside forward disappeared.

Some managers are dogmatic about formations for some reason. Great managers are almost always pragmatic.