Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[Khalekan]

Strange things happening in the SDLP.

On the one hand the party is moving into an arrangement with Fianna Fail, with a fully fledged merger probably the medium term outcome.

But on the ithe hand, party grandee and former leader, Mark Durkan, will be standin as a Fine Gael candudate in Dublin in the forthcoming Euro elections

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Strange things happening in the SDLP.

On the one hand the party is moving into an arrangement with Fianna Fail, with a fully fledged merger probably the medium term outcome.

But on the ithe hand, party grandee and former leader, Mark Durkan, will be standin as a Fine Gael candudate in Dublin in the forthcoming Euro elections

Durkan’s defection is a hammer blow to Eastwood’s chances of turning the party back around to relevance. With the Attwoods and Claire Hanna now similarly disaffected then their future is bleak.

It’s a pity as I like Eastwood and he has spoken well regarding Brexit.

 

[Khalekan]

Durkan’s defection is a hammer blow to Eastwood’s chances of turning the party back around to relevance. With the Attwoods and Claire Hanna now similarly disaffected then their future is bleak.

It’s a pity as I like Eastwood and he has spoken well regarding Brexit.

Indeed.

Eastwood comes acriss a very capable and authoritative spokesman,.....certainly better than any Sinn Fein politician currently ooerating IMO.

(I cannot understand why SF don’t have Conor Murphy more to the fore....I think he is their best speaker)

You needed someone like Eastwood in Westminster the other day to take Bradley down when she let the cat out the bag about state murder.

What do you make of the Irish Times poll suggesting a big majority of northern Nationalists wanting Sinn Fein to take their seats in future?

It is something I have been banging in about here for a long time and bears out what I hear anecdotally in conversations with relatives and friends from Belfast.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I think you'll find the majority of people dont want a united ireland

It's creeping closer and closer in opinion polls. 42% last time I remember.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Indeed.

Eastwood comes acriss a very capable and authoritative spokesman,.....certainly better than any Sinn Fein politician currently ooerating IMO.

(I cannot understand why SF don’t have Conor Murphy more to the fore....I think he is their best speaker)

You needed someone like Eastwood in Westminster the other day to take Bradley down when she let the cat out the bag about state murder.

What do you make of the Irish Times poll suggesting a big majority of northern Nationalists wanting Sinn Fein to take their seats in future?

It is something I have been banging in about here for a long time and bears out what I hear anecdotally in conversations with relatives and friends from Belfast.

Connor Murphy has definitely taken a back seat since the discrimination case but I’m not actually sure that this is the reason for his moving to the periphery. I think the reason why he didn’t get the leadership ahead of O’Neill was due to his history and the wish to have a female figurehead.

I haven’t heard much of anything locally about SF taking their seats so that groundswell hasn’t reached Armagh yet anyway. A few high profile Nationalists have recently advocated it, Joe Brolly being the most recent. For me, I can’t say I would welcome it but is it really much different than recognising Leinster House?

 

[Khalekan]

Connor Murphy has definitely taken a back seat since the discrimination case but I’m not actually sure that this is the reason for his moving to the periphery. I think the reason why he didn’t get the leadership ahead of O’Neill was due to his history and the wish to have a female figurehead.

I haven’t heard much of anything locally about SF taking their seats so that groundswell hasn’t reached Armagh yet anyway. A few high profile Nationalists have recently advocated it, Joe Brolly being the most recent. For me, I can’t say I would welcome it but is it really much different than recognising Leinster House?

Or taking seats in Stormont.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Or taking seats in Stormont.

Indeed.

I do get the point you are making about what SF MPs could have done in Westminster regarding Brexit votes when May is hanging on but is it really the right time for them to abandon abstentionism?

A messy Brexit is fuelling Nationalist sentiment and I suggest that SF are very content to sit back and just point at the mess London is creating for Remain voting Ireland.

 

[Ruairi77]

Indeed.

I do get the point you are making about what SF MPs could have done in Westminster regarding Brexit votes when May is hanging on but is it really the right time for them to abandon abstentionism?

A messy Brexit is fuelling Nationalist sentiment and I suggest that SF are very content to sit back and just point at the mess London is creating for Remain voting Ireland.

I'd imagine there's only so much 'hurling from the ditch' or sitting back that SF can do before people get really sick of them. Yea, their base will always support them but moderate nationalists may start drifting back to the SDLP or begin to ask more of SF.
(that said, I'm fairly out of touch with northern Irish politcs!)

 

[Khalekan]

Indeed.

I do get the point you are making about what SF MPs could have done in Westminster regarding Brexit votes when May is hanging on but is it really the right time for them to abandon abstentionism?

A messy Brexit is fuelling Nationalist sentiment and I suggest that SF are very content to sit back and just point at the mess London is creating for Remain voting Ireland.

Definitely the right time to abandon Abstentionism IMO.

It is self defeating in the current situation and has allowed the DUP and their looney tunes mates in the ERG to present themselves as the only voice of the people in the Six Counties.

The moment the Tories got into bed with the DUP the Sinners should have called an extraordinary Ard Fheis to counter the threat and put an end to a policy Arthur Griffiths implemented at the turn of the last century and which itself has nowt to do with Ireland but was a tactic copied from Hungarian separatists whom refused to take seats in the Habsburg parliament in Vienna circa 1870. Apparently Arfur was a keen student of Austrian politics, Austria being the major European powerhouse in the mid 19th century.

What relevance this has in today’s world totally baffles me.

And it not just the numbers game.

It is the lack of Irish nationalist voices when these debates are in progress that really annoys me.

As @mark O’Silver said to me earlier, when Ms. Bradley was making her cretinous remarks the other day, the cameras panned to the Opposition benches where the only Irish members in attendance were nodding in agreement, most noticeably Samuel A Tache.

That is why I am so delighted to see the Irish Times Poll finding that 64% of the Catholic/Nationalist people in the North want those elected from that community to go in to Westminster and give the alternative point of view.

There needed to be someone there to take Bradley to task.

Twenty years ago it would have men of the calibre of John Hume or Seamus Mallon getting up and expressing outrage and piping Bradley right down..

But as you say, and I have said it myself on here, Sinn Fein are salivating at the thoughts of a hard Brexit as it suits their agenda perfectly.

It really is sad that the DUP and Sinn Fein have NI politics in this vise grip

 

[Khalekan]

I'd imagine there's only so much 'hurling from the ditch' or sitting back that SF can do before people get really sick of them. Yea, their base will always support them but moderate nationalists may start drifting back to the SDLP or begin to ask more of SF.
(that said, I'm fairly out of touch with northern Irish politcs!)

I think if this SDLP/Fianna Fáil coalition turns into a fully fledged FF takeover then Sinn Fein will have a fight on their hands in the North.

With the Fianna Fáil election machine swinging into action, moderate nationalism and indeed republicans will very readily identify with it.

Sinn Fein has relegated itself to the sidelines of politics in NI......between pulling the plug on Stormont and refusing to get involved th the Battle of Brexit down that London, they are reduced to overseeing the emptying of bins in Belfast and Derry and appointing dog wardens in Armagh and Dungannon.

Mary Lou McDonald is, IMO, turning out to be a disastrous appointment as party leader in Dublin where her abrasive style is very offputting.

It will be very interesting to see how SF do in the Euro elections in the Republic come May.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

I'd imagine there's only so much 'hurling from the ditch' or sitting back that SF can do before people get really sick of them. Yea, their base will always support them but moderate nationalists may start drifting back to the SDLP or begin to ask more of SF.
(that said, I'm fairly out of touch with northern Irish politcs!)

The SDLP have fed themselves to FF and thereby guaranteed their demise. To attract the bulk of their vote then SF will of course have to be more appealing to them than they historically have been but Brexit will play an immense helping hand in that scenario.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

I think if this SDLP/Fianna Fáil coalition turns into a fully fledged FF takeover then Sinn Fein will have a fight on their hands in the North.

With the Fianna Fáil election machine swinging into action, moderate nationalism and indeed republicans will very readily identify with it.

Sinn Fein has relegated itself to the sidelines of politics in NI......between pulling the plug on Stormont and refusing to get involved th the Battle of Brexit down that London, they are reduced to overseeing the emptying of bins in Belfast and Derry and appointing dog wardens in Armagh and Dungannon.

Mary Lou McDonald is, IMO, turning out to be a disastrous appointment as party leader in Dublin where her abrasive style is very offputting.

It will be very interesting to see how SF do in the Euro elections in the Republic come May.

The deal offered to the DUP last year would have seen SF back in Stormont but let’s not forget that it was Arlene who very publicly rejected it after privately agreeing to it. That was a key DUP negotiating mistake as they definitely were getting the better end of things at a time when their own vote is edging away demographically.

I just don’t see FF being as big a threat as you say to SF and it will take a while for them to even emulate SDLP voting returns. However, I would welcome their entry to NI politics if it focuses minds on the constitutional question post Brexit. I would guess that FF will quickly try to get on board with Northern Nationalism and that will necessitate very vocal campaigning South of the border for unification.

This must all be very unsettling for Unionism it has to be said and I do wonder if the penny has dropped what their leave vote would actually lead to ultimately.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Definitely the right time to abandon Abstentionism IMO.

It is self defeating in the current situation and has allowed the DUP and their looney tunes mates in the ERG to present themselves as the only voice of the people in the Six Counties.

The moment the Tories got into bed with the DUP the Sinners should have called an extraordinary Ard Fheis to counter the threat and put an end to a policy Arthur Griffiths implemented at the turn of the last century and which itself has nowt to do with Ireland but was a tactic copied from Hungarian separatists whom refused to take seats in the Habsburg parliament in Vienna circa 1870. Apparently Arfur was a keen student of Austrian politics, Austria being the major European powerhouse in the mid 19th century.

What relevance this has in today’s world totally baffles me.

And it not just the numbers game.

It is the lack of Irish nationalist voices when these debates are in progress that really annoys me.

As @mark O’Silver said to me earlier, when Ms. Bradley was making her cretinous remarks the other day, the cameras panned to the Opposition benches where the only Irish members in attendance were nodding in agreement, most noticeably Samuel A Tache.

That is why I am so delighted to see the Irish Times Poll finding that 64% of the Catholic/Nationalist people in the North want those elected from that community to go in to Westminster and give the alternative point of view.

There needed to be someone there to take Bradley to task.

Twenty years ago it would have men of the calibre of John Hume or Seamus Mallon getting up and expressing outrage and piping Bradley right down..

But as you say, and I have said it myself on here, Sinn Fein are salivating at the thoughts of a hard Brexit as it suits their agenda perfectly.

It really is sad that the DUP and Sinn Fein have NI politics in this vise grip

It will happen eventually Khal and probably as a confidence building gesture to Unionism to help them get on board with agreeing a shared future.

2022 Samuel A Tache, TD for Donegal

 

[Khalekan]

It will happen eventually Khal and probably as a confidence building gesture to Unionism to help them get on board with agreeing a shared future.

2022 Samuel A Tache, TD for Donegal

lol

 

[Khalekan]

This must all be very unsettling for Unionism it has to be said and I do wonder if the penny has dropped what their leave vote would actually lead to ultimately.

Indeed.

The DUP has forced the issue of Irish unity, put on the long finger by the GFA and subsequently out of the immediate mindset of Nationalists as no one could actually notice much difference between one side of the border and the other thanks to the EU, right back to the top of the agenda.

And the irony is NI was offered the absolute best of both worlds in the November 2017 agreement between May and the EU.....remaining in both the UK and the EU.

The DUP weren’t having it....so the turmoil continues.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

( and it could still have that deal under the new agreement.....most likely will in actual fact because if it comes to May’s deal or no Brexit, the ERG will abandon Samuel A and his band of useful idiots and vote the former through)