Arlene was against the GFA, she believes in nothing only whatever the opposition POV to the Shinners is. I though this was an interesting quote from that piece
Ready to throw May under a security forces land rover to suit her agenda.
Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit
- Thread starter Charlie Sweet
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Ready to throw May under a security forces land rover to suit her agenda.
Unfortunately, she is wrong.
"In an interview with the Daily Telegraph, Mrs Foster said it was not a sacrosanct piece of legislation.
Mrs Foster said it was deeply frustrating to hear Remain voters and what she termed "people in Europe" talk about Northern Ireland as though, she said, we cannot touch the Belfast Agreement.
Things evolve even in the EU context, she added.
There had been a lot of misinterpretation, she said, holding up the Good Friday Agreement as a sacrosanct piece of legislation".
She obviously doesn't know her history.
"These are political issues, though. Meanwhile there could be a deeper significance, as the Good Friday Agreement has legal status within international law as a treaty lodged with the United Nations. In formal language, the Good Friday Agreement is a bilateral agreement between the UK and the Republic of Ireland".
It's an international treaty lodged with the UN. I look forward to her telling the Irish government, Irish Americans and Mitchell that it's not 'sacrosanct'. The DUP never wanted it in the first place and they're crapping themselves because special status and a united Ireland vote is looming large on the horizon. Poor Arlene, she's going to go down in history as being the leader of rabid unionism that was in charge when Ireland unified. It a long way from Carson and the Curragh mutiny times for unionism.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
It's clear the Tories are scrambling around ahead of the EU Brexit deadline for a wobbly return-to-it-in-the-future outcome on the issue of the border conundrum and that has a lot of people responding to it. She chooses to hold out the spectre of the gun as her response. Horrible get.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
It's just what what the situation needs right now: a warmongering nobhead like her desperately posturing to be "staunch".
As far as I'm aware just about all those DUP leaders are up to their ears in corruption - the most unsavoury bunch of ball bags imaginable. Scary to think that these loonies are intimately wound up in the final decision to determine what happens with the future of this country.
There needs to be a General Election here and get shut of the need to deal with the crazies like her.
Because it ain’t ours to “sell”.
We created this mess by putting a border in Ireland in the first place and the honourable thing for this country to do is to recognise that Brexit in the north eastern corner of Ireland is a totally different beast to Brexit in the north eastern corner of England and it needs to act accordingly.
It is both sickening and disgusting the way the Tories are allowing the DUP to frame their already muddled thinking on this matter.
This is what May agreed to in December that Johnson says was a smokescreen to move the talks along.
"49. The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South cooperation and to its guarantee of avoiding a hard border. Any future arrangements must be compatible with these overarching requirements. The United Kingdom's intention is to achieve these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible, the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland. In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.
50. In the absence of agreed solutions, as set out in the previous paragraph, the United Kingdom will ensure that no new regulatory barriers develop between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom, unless, consistent with the 1998 Agreement, the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly agree that distinct arrangements are appropriate for Northern Ireland. In all circumstances, the United Kingdom will continue to ensure the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland's businesses to the whole of the United Kingdom internal market".
Paragraph 49 - special status for Northern Ireland to stay in the single market and the customs union.
Paragraph 50 - 'no new regulatory barriers develop between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK' - if Northern Ireland stays in the customs union and the single market then so does the rest of the UK. That's the backstop agreement. When the Brexiteers pointed this out May's duplicity came to the fore , 'The former foreign secretary has claimed he only agreed to support the plan because he was "absolutely reassured that this was just a form of words that was necessary to float the negotiations off the rocks".
May's been caught out and now has to answer for her deception.
"49. The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South cooperation and to its guarantee of avoiding a hard border. Any future arrangements must be compatible with these overarching requirements. The United Kingdom's intention is to achieve these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible, the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland. In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.
50. In the absence of agreed solutions, as set out in the previous paragraph, the United Kingdom will ensure that no new regulatory barriers develop between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom, unless, consistent with the 1998 Agreement, the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly agree that distinct arrangements are appropriate for Northern Ireland. In all circumstances, the United Kingdom will continue to ensure the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland's businesses to the whole of the United Kingdom internal market".
Paragraph 49 - special status for Northern Ireland to stay in the single market and the customs union.
Paragraph 50 - 'no new regulatory barriers develop between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK' - if Northern Ireland stays in the customs union and the single market then so does the rest of the UK. That's the backstop agreement. When the Brexiteers pointed this out May's duplicity came to the fore , 'The former foreign secretary has claimed he only agreed to support the plan because he was "absolutely reassured that this was just a form of words that was necessary to float the negotiations off the rocks".
May's been caught out and now has to answer for her deception.
What you are reading and seeing there Dave, is the mask slipping.
Both Arlene Foster and Jeffrey Donaldson left the Trimble branch of Unionism to join the DUP because they vehemently opposed the Good Friday Agreement and the idea of sharing power in NI.
They are now seizing on Brexit as a tool to wreck the GFA and far from wanting a return to local government in Stormont, the DUP are more than happy to see the return of Direct Rule,
And if that was to result in civil unrest on the streets of Derry and Belfast or in skirmishes with customs officials in the border ares of South Armagh then so be it.
They want a return to the status quo as it existed before the old Stirmont was abolished in 1972.....and if they cannot have that then the status quo of 1997 will suffice.
And let me return to my favourite hobby horse because the bleating of that MacDonald woman in Dublin does my head in.
She whines about giing to Leinster House to “speak to the Taoiseach” about Foster’s cavalier disregard of the GFA.
He should tell her to eff up and step up to the plate.
Because the only reason the DUP have such a strong hand here us the fact that her people refuse to hold their noses, cross their fingers and get into Westminster to help those who are fighting back against the Brexit beast.
As you indicate....the current arithmetic in Westminster is empowering the DUP to such an extent they now see the removal of the GFA as a possibility.
In their eyes the GFA is suddenly in play.....they cannot believe their luck.
This is not the time for a policy devised a hundred years ago to be used gleefully as a tool to beat the Irish people down.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Was never going to happen though. There's red lines and then there's that.
Carl O'Ancelotti
Player Valuation: £20m
So today we learn that the GFA is no longer sacrosanct despite it being approved in 2 referendums by vast majorities unlike the Brexit referendum vote, And all because the DUP neanderthals hold the balance of power in Westminster. Not only that, Foster has stuck the knife into May's back by stating her preference for Johnson as British PM. This nonsense has to stop now before it is too late, and the only way to do this appears for there to be a UK general election asap.
The UK government are playing with fire here if they entertain these backward cretins any longer. Any undoing of the GFA which has brought stability and peace here for 20 years could and probably will have disastrous consequences.
The UK government are playing with fire here if they entertain these backward cretins any longer. Any undoing of the GFA which has brought stability and peace here for 20 years could and probably will have disastrous consequences.
I think you have to understand the pattern of current UK politics. In short, the Tory right wing, which now hold all power in that party due to the incompetence of May, do not give a toss about Ireland, it won't be allowed to stop Brexit and the GFA will be torn up by stealth to push Brexit through. There'll be servitudes to get it over the line but ultimately they just don't care.
What everyone needs to understand and remember is that if trouble breaks out over there again, the Tories are 100% to blame for it and should be held to account.
Carl O'Ancelotti
Player Valuation: £20m
Yes and it is courting of the Tory right wing by the DUP which is pushing this to the brink. They are using the present impasse to pursue their agenda to the maximum. If it is allowed to continue there will be a heavy price to pay. For example the chances of a return to the devolved administration in NI have just gone from small to non-existent this morning.
They were next to nil before today anyway, Mark.
The default position was and remains Direct Rule and the DUP woukd much rsther have that than share power.
Khal, arithmetic or not they will be against the GFA no matter what, because it has the proviso for a vote on unification. They bellyached under Blair and Cameron about the GFA - the Tory government flag flying that led to a protest 'they've gone to far with this GFA- pleasing the nationalists over our tradition'. Their line didn't last long as it fizzled out though because the vast majority of the unionist/loyalist community isn't that arsed about flag flying.When push comes to shove, it's the bread and butter jobs, housing, NHS, health care, social services etc, they are far more concerned about. There's a growing resignation amongst my family, I'm from the Shankhill, particularly the under 45s, that there will be a united Ireland in the not too distant future.
The GFA is a bilateral agreement between the UK and the RoI and lodged at the UN, both sides have tango. If the UK decides to unilaterally renege on the it - what Johnson has called for - then good luck with that one. Good luck trying to negotiate a deal with the US. The Irish diaspora will be out in force. It was due to Irish American worries that Mitchell came over on the anniversary and told May that the GFA was in fact sacrosanct.
A sign of desperation is they are trying the 'national security' slant - WTO exemplar - due to 'Putin did it' Skripal Salisbury incident and incorporated in the Counter Terrorism and Border Security Bill which imposes a mile radius border in the 'vicinity of the border' on the island of Ireland. They can't impose a border, necessary if the whole UK leaves, due to the GFA so they are trying another angle to impose a border. In that sense you are absolutely correct that they[DUP] 'see the removal of the GFA as a possibility'. But it's a high high poker game they are trying to play and is a sign of how desperate some of the Brexiteers and the DUP have become. At WTO Russia will ask for evidence for 'national security' concerns. But WTO will kill UK manufacturing. To try and 'solve' one problem they create another bigger problem and far more seriously economically. They are biting their nose off to spite their face.
As I see it there are two choices for May - special status for the North, agreed in December with a border on the Irish sea which is already there and functioning as such, and to satisfy the DUP's 'we want to be treated the same as the rest of the UK' the rest of the UK stays in the single market and customs union (called a different name of course) or a border on the island of Ireland. The UK will get the blame for a hard border and the push for a border poll will become louder and louder.
A November election seems on the cards.
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I wish I shared your optimism, Hull.
If a Tory/DUP motion to change the GFA was presented to the House and passed then I don’t believe the UN woukd do owt about it.
And unlike twenty years ago, there will be no mediation or offers of help from the White House.
If anything, Trump will go along with them.
No....the only weapon we have to stop this is the seven or eight Sinn Fein MPs who are tied to an outdated dogma, dreamed up whilst WW1 was still on.
They need to put their country and people ahead of party now. and stop playing into the hands of Foster and Jihnson.
And if they think it dishonourabke to swear an oath whikst crissing their fingers then fine.....if the election comes in November, let them nit cintest it and let other Irish Nationalist parties run in their constituencies so the visitor from Mars is nit confused into thinking only one party represents the NI electorate.
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