Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[Joey66]

Oh dear. Get well soon Joey. When you are well, read the last few pages of this thread.....

This site has kept me going .
Just useless on this smart phone!

 

[TraffordBlue]

To be honest it is amazing that this is still rumbling on, it is a fairly simple to get a list of possible solutions and decide if they are acceptable to one side or the other, if one is a deal can be done, if not then it's no deal.

As far as I see it here are the only soloutions:

• Create a hard border between the north and south
• Create a hard border between NI and the rest of the UK
• NI secedes from the UK and becomes either it's own country or becomes a part of a unified Ireland
• The ROI also withdraws from the EU
• The EU give up caring about the situation and just lets goods cross the border in a free manner and hope that imports are paid for correctly and the UK doesn't abuse the ability to get hold of stuff at EU rates through Ireland.
• The UK remains in the common market/EU altogether.

The first is a no for the ROI and the people of NI which also contravenes the GFA.

The second is a no for the UK government and the unionist party (& unionists within NI) that keeps the former in power.

Next one is as above.

Fourth no chance ROI will do that.

Fifth is a big no from Brussels.

The 6th is difficult from May's point of view because the Tories will self destruct, leading to them being kicked out of power.

It shouldn't take 18 months to work out the answer to the above.

I think solution 6 is what will most likely happen. It will be a 'bad deal' for the UK but the only way that the referendum result is upheld (although Brexiteers will obviously moan about it).

The problem she has got was that she tried to come across so assured initially claiming we will do x, y and z, without appreciating that one impacts the other and x, y and z cannot all be achieved. We cannot leave the customs union and take back control at the same time. She will have to go back on what she told people originally.

On the moaning aspect from Brexiteers, it would be a fair stance for them to take if Brexit was actually feasible. But it isn't due to the objectives conflicting with each other and those on that side have either lied to themselves or lied to others to continue the fantasy that Brexit can be achieved successfully.

 

[hullefc]

May has got an absolute cheek to talk about respect. The way she has treated the people of Northern Ireland and the Republic has been anything but respectfully. She agreed to the December agreement that would see Northern Ireland stay in the customs union and the single market if there was no deal. Which had the cavea, to save her political bacon, that the whole UK would stay in the customs union and the single market, to appease the DUP's 'we want NI to be treated the same as the rest of the UK'.

To then dismiss the December agreement, the moment the EU/Irish wanted it in legal text. It's clear that the reason May agreed to the December protocol was to get trade talks 'moving along'. Slyly she fooled the EU/Irish government into believing they had an agreement in December so did move to the next stage amid such fanfare. May deserves all the contempt she gets all the disrespect she gets from the EU and no amount of attempting to dress it up as 'she's showing resolve/tough' can hide the fact that she's acted disrespectfully towards the people of Ireland. Respect. She wouldn't know what it means as her treatment of the Windrush British citizens shows.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

May has got an absolute cheek to talk about respect. The way she has treated the people of Northern Ireland and the Republic has been anything but respectfully. She agreed to the December agreement that would see Northern Ireland stay in the customs union and the single market if there was no deal. Which had the cavea, to save her political bacon, that the whole UK would stay in the customs union and the single market, to appease the DUP's 'we want NI to be treated the same as the rest of the UK'.

To then dismiss the December agreement, the moment the EU/Irish wanted it in legal text. It's clear that the reason May agreed to the December protocol was to get trade talks 'moving along'. Slyly she fooled the EU/Irish government into believing they had an agreement in December so did move to the next stage amid such fanfare. May deserves all the contempt she gets all the disrespect she gets from the EU and no amount of attempting to dress it up as 'she's showing resolve/tough' can hide the fact that she's acted disrespectfully towards the people of Ireland. Respect. She wouldn't know what it means as her treatment of the Windrush British citizens shows.

Spot on, the EU did treat her with respect by not dismissing her Chequers plan immediately even though it was obvious from the off that it was not going to work. They suggested some amendments last week which she has dismissed out of hand showing a complete lack of respect, and then demands to be respected herself. She is the one that won't budge on the border issue because she is needs the backing of the DUP to save her own skin. It's an utter shambles of her own making.

 

[thirdmantackle]

And yet, Sinn Fein could be holding the balance of power if they bothered to take their seats, in the parliament they were elected to

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

And yet, Sinn Fein could be holding the balance of power if they bothered to take their seats, in the parliament they were elected to

And if you know your history...............

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Have I missed it or has any British journalist actually asked May how her public desire for an open Irish border actually sits with controlling British borders from other EU states?

Exactly. @peteblue And @Joey66 ignore it's an obvious contradiction. You can't "control our borders" as all the rabid Brexiteers want and have an "open border" with the EU. It's been laughable since day one. Highlight was dear Pete saying "control" merely meant the academic option of controlling the border and not the actual controlling of a border...

And yet, Sinn Fein could be holding the balance of power if they bothered to take their seats, in the parliament they were elected to

Are you taking the Mick or what?!

 

[thirdmantackle]

And if you know your history...............

Exactly. @peteblue And @Joey66 ignore it's an obvious contradiction. You can't "control our borders" as all the rabid Brexiteers want and have an "open border" with the EU. It's been laughable since day one. Highlight was dear Pete saying "control" merely meant the academic option of controlling the border and not the actual controlling of a border...





Are you taking the Mick or what?!

I know my island's history better than most
Sinn Fein MPs should be in westminister trying to get the best deal for their constituents in NI and the republic

Instead of going around talking about border polls

 

[Taifi gorm]

I know my island's history better than most
Sinn Fein MPs should be in westminister trying to get the best deal for their constituents in NI and the republic

Instead of going around talking about border polls

You might claim to know the islands history but you clearly don't understand that history.

 

[The binman chronicles]

And yet, Sinn Fein could be holding the balance of power if they bothered to take their seats, in the parliament they were elected to

Surely this is in their interest if the UK leaves the EU on bad terms. Most likely a physical border will need to be put up thus hastening what they want, a unified Ireland.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Surely this is in their interest if the UK leaves the EU on bad terms. Most likely a physical border will need to be put up thus hastening what they want, a unified Ireland.

Correct, which is also why they don't want a second referendum. They are playing the long game as they have judged that a hard Brexit is more likely to accelerate the break up of the UK. And they are probably right.

 

[Ruairi77]

I don't know much about Stephen Pound but at least he seems to have a grasp of what's at stake here.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

But, but, Rees Mogg said that he and his mates had solved the Irish border question today? Imagine, one of the landed gentry doing what not one of his predecesors had done in 800 years? The absolute arrogance of it. The man is so deluded it's untrue! The whole Brexit project falters on the inability of the British government to take Ireland seriously. Mind you, they can 'hope' that it will work itself out can't they? Laughable.......

 

[summerisle]

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

There is absolutely no reason why NI cannot remain in both the EU and the UK other than May's desperate need for DUP support to cling on to power. The irony is that this is probably the only thing that is stopping the Brexiteers getting their way.

Which is more important to them, getting out of the EU at the cost of having an invisible border in the Irish Sea for goods and people, or refusing to budge on this issue at the risk of no Brexit and possible break up of the UK in the near future ?

They are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.