Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[hullefc]

I wish I shared your optimism, Hull.

If a Tory/DUP motion to change the GFA was presented to the House and passed then I don’t believe the UN woukd do owt about it.

And unlike twenty years ago, there will be no mediation or offers of help from the White House.

If anything, Trump will go along with them.

No....the only weapon we have to stop this is the seven or eight Sinn Fein MPs who are tied to an outdated dogma, dreamed up whilst WW1 was still on.

They need to put their country and people ahead of party now. and stop playing into the hands of Foster and Jihnson.

And if they think it dishonourabke to swear an oath whikst crissing their fingers then fine.....if the election comes in November, let them nit cintest it and let other Irish Nationalist parties run in their constituencies so the visitor from Mars is nit confused into thinking only one party represents the NI electorate.

The Tories/DUP would never get that through parliament they can't even get this Brexit thing through never mind reneging on a peace agreement. And if they did it would lead to a call for a border poll immediately. If they reneged on that the Irish government would approach the UN.

When the Irish government went to the UN and said the UK are reneging on the GFA the UK would get slaughtered. Trump may be able to renege on things but not the UK. The Russian, Chinese would have a field day never mind the rest of the EU. Spain would take them to the cleaners Every country that has a disagreement with the UK will hammer them and make them a laughing stock.Hardly a ringing endorsement when they are trying to sign trade agreements with other countries.

As far as Trump goes members of the Irish government have been over a number of times. I don't think Trump would fancy trying to bat off the anger shown during St Patrick Day's marches in the US and the hostility from Congress and the Senate. What would he have to gain? Nothing IMO.

Sinn Fein are an abstentionist party in the long tradition of Irish abstentionism. There is nothing to gain for the cause for a united Ireland for Sinn Fein to take their seats. In fact, imo there is more to gain as the Brexit thing has shown the people on the island of Ireland what the UK government are really about, deceit and duplicity.

Maybe Sinn Fein may step aside and allow other Nationalist parties a free rein. But that would also allow the DUP to gain more seats as there would be a big chunk of the Irish electorate that wouldn't bother voting. But why should Sinn Fein bail out those that want to stay in the EU when they've done sod all themselves. How many of the likes of Kinnock, Chuckitin, Benn etc. have really stood up in parliament and tried to stop the Withdrawal Bill. Tried to stop Brexit. Hoey's no border in the Irish Sea amendment went through on the nod. Not one dissenting voice was raised from Kinnock et al. Those gutless Blairites hadn't the gall to stand up and be counted. To disrupt parliamentary business to put a vote of no confidence in May.

Sinn Fein get elected to the UK parliament and to other positions because of what they stand for, a united Ireland. Being abstentionist is part of that tactic on the road to a united Ireland. If the UK government is foolish enough to impose a border then it will get the blame. If they took their seats and Brexit didn't happen, who'll get the blame? Who will the 'traitors' headlights be directed against?

Unfortunately, democracy is a bitch sometimes and the majority of the UK population voted to leave the EU. Either the Tories renege on this or they carry it through. Going against the 'will of the people' and they tear themselves apart and virtually become un-electable. And don't forget who'll be watching the government renege on the 'will of the people'. The DUP who will try and use that when there is a border poll. Carry it through, and impose a border on the island of Ireland then it leads to a border poll and the very likelihood of a united Ireland. Don't carry it through and let NI have special status then the Scots kick off and demand a second referendum. The break up of the UK is very much on the cards and I never thought in my lifetime I would see a united Ireland. I'm absolutely convinced now that I will.

 

[Ruairi77]

The DUP who will try and use that when there is a border poll. Carry it through, and impose a border on the island of Ireland then it leads to a border poll and the very likelihood of a united Ireland. Don't carry it through and let NI have special status then the Scots kick off and demand a second referendum. The break up of the UK is very much on the cards and I never thought in my lifetime I would see a united Ireland. I'm absolutely convinced now that I will.

What ever about a united Ireland, there's a very real possibility of the end of the UK (unless England and Wales counts as the UK) and that's absolutely bananas.

 

[The binman chronicles]

What ever about a united Ireland, there's a very real possibility of the end of the UK (unless England and Wales counts as the UK) and that's absolutely bananas.

Funny thing is we would then be trying to fend off immigrants coming in from Ireland and Scotland (France would presumably try moving the Calais type camps to near Gretna as part of a package to welcome Scotland to the EU) and basically what started out as an immigration issue would have brought the issue right to our doorstep and created hard borders for anyone who isn't traveling between England and Wales.

 

[hullefc]

What ever about a united Ireland, there's a very real possibility of the end of the UK (unless England and Wales counts as the UK) and that's absolutely bananas.

There is a stipulation in the GFA that there can be a border poll for a united Ireland. A united Ireland will finally see the end of British rule on the island of Ireland. Which will see the UK change to be England, Scotland and Wales. Brexit is making the 'end of the UK' much more likely by the day, so be it.

 

[davek]

There is a stipulation in the GFA that there can be a border poll for a united Ireland. A united Ireland will finally see the end of British rule on the island of Ireland. Which will see the UK change to be England, Scotland and Wales. Brexit is making the 'end of the UK' much more likely by the day, so be it.

Which is what most of us here on the mainland think it is anyway.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Unsurprisingly Foster's interview has not gone down well in the Dáil:

The Taoiseach has said the Good Friday Agreement is not up for renegotiation, after DUP leader Arlene Foster said it could be altered to accommodate a final Brexit deal. Leo Varadkar responded by saying that the Government defends the primacy of the agreement and sees its role as co-defenders of the agreement. He said: "It is not a piece of British legislation, it is a piece of international legislation" and it is an agreement that was put to referendum.
He said it could only be changed with the consent of the British and Irish governments and the consent of people in Northern Ireland. He said it is not up for renegotiation.

Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald raised the remarks in the Dáil, saying they were "dangerous and reprehensible" and revealed a "reckless" attitude to the agreement. Ms McDonald said that Mrs Foster may need to be reminded that the agreement was endorsed by people across the island.

Earlier, Tánaiste Simon Coveney said Mrs Foster was "wrong in this case". He said: "I have respect for Arlene, but she is wrong on this. GFA was voted for by overwhelming majority in NI & IRL, has helped to end violence and provided for the most prolonged period of peace and stability in NI’s history. We will defend and protect it through Brexit."

 

[hullefc]

Northern Ireland DUP threatens to pull plug on May's government

November election it is then Arlene. The lady interviewing her on Sky helped her out by mentioning 'extra' border checks in the Irish sea, as there is checks already.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

The DUP's red lines are now "blood red" apparently:

“There cannot be a border down the Irish sea, a differential between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK,” DUP leader Arlene Foster told the BBC on Tuesday. The interview was aired on Wednesday. “The red line is blood red.”

“All along we have said: ‘No new regulatory alignment’,” Foster said.

When asked if she was prepared to vote down PM May on a Brexit deal, she said: “We don’t want to be in that position.”

“This is too important to be playing around with things because this is the union - this is what brought me into politics,” Foster said.

The DUP’s 10 lawmakers prop up May’s minority Conservative government.

Using emotive language like "blood red" is not very clever Arlene with regard to NI politics. It conjures up images of the past and people resorting to violence when they don't get their way. Absolutely stupid and unnecessary comment.

 

[hullefc]

The DUP's red lines are now "blood red" apparently:

“There cannot be a border down the Irish sea, a differential between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK,” DUP leader Arlene Foster told the BBC on Tuesday. The interview was aired on Wednesday. “The red line is blood red.”

“All along we have said: ‘No new regulatory alignment’,” Foster said.

When asked if she was prepared to vote down PM May on a Brexit deal, she said: “We don’t want to be in that position.”

“This is too important to be playing around with things because this is the union - this is what brought me into politics,” Foster said.

The DUP’s 10 lawmakers prop up May’s minority Conservative government.

Using emotive language like "blood red" is not very clever Arlene with regard to NI politics. It conjures up images of the past and people resorting to violence when they don't get their way. Absolutely stupid and unnecessary comment.

Foster's been told on numerous occasions that there is already a border down the Irish sea checking agriculture and livestock. Rees Mogg's gang talked about it in their Brexit paper. Maybe that's why she's saying, 'no new regulatory alignment' and is to do with goods. That said, May's going to agree to the checking of goods in Northern Irish ports, as happens now with agriculture.

 

[Khalekan]

There is a stipulation in the GFA that there can be a border poll for a united Ireland. A united Ireland will finally see the end of British rule on the island of Ireland. Which will see the UK change to be England, Scotland and Wales. Brexit is making the 'end of the UK' much more likely by the day, so be it.

Yes, but the devil is in the detail.

That Border Poll can only be called by the sitting British PM if he or she “believes there would be a majority in favour of it”, whatever the heck that means.

And even if the vote was in favour of a united Ireland nowt would happen for seven years, at the end of which another Poll would be held.

And if I am not mistaken, in the event of a similiar result another seven years would elapse before a third and final Border Poll would see the British finally bid adieu to Ireland.

 

[MarkK1988]

Unsurprisingly Foster's interview has not gone down well in the Dáil:

The Taoiseach has said the Good Friday Agreement is not up for renegotiation, after DUP leader Arlene Foster said it could be altered to accommodate a final Brexit deal. Leo Varadkar responded by saying that the Government defends the primacy of the agreement and sees its role as co-defenders of the agreement. He said: "It is not a piece of British legislation, it is a piece of international legislation" and it is an agreement that was put to referendum.
He said it could only be changed with the consent of the British and Irish governments and the consent of people in Northern Ireland. He said it is not up for renegotiation.

Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald raised the remarks in the Dáil, saying they were "dangerous and reprehensible" and revealed a "reckless" attitude to the agreement. Ms McDonald said that Mrs Foster may need to be reminded that the agreement was endorsed by people across the island.

Earlier, Tánaiste Simon Coveney said Mrs Foster was "wrong in this case". He said: "I have respect for Arlene, but she is wrong on this. GFA was voted for by overwhelming majority in NI & IRL, has helped to end violence and provided for the most prolonged period of peace and stability in NI’s history. We will defend and protect it through Brexit."

she wont care what they think, why on earth should the 85% of the population on the island of ireland have anything to say about the way the country is run

 

[Khalekan]

Unsurprisingly Foster's interview has not gone down well in the Dáil:

The Taoiseach has said the Good Friday Agreement is not up for renegotiation, after DUP leader Arlene Foster said it could be altered to accommodate a final Brexit deal. Leo Varadkar responded by saying that the Government defends the primacy of the agreement and sees its role as co-defenders of the agreement. He said: "It is not a piece of British legislation, it is a piece of international legislation" and it is an agreement that was put to referendum.
He said it could only be changed with the consent of the British and Irish governments and the consent of people in Northern Ireland. He said it is not up for renegotiation.

Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald raised the remarks in the Dáil, saying they were "dangerous and reprehensible" and revealed a "reckless" attitude to the agreement. Ms McDonald said that Mrs Foster may need to be reminded that the agreement was endorsed by people across the island.

Earlier, Tánaiste Simon Coveney said Mrs Foster was "wrong in this case". He said: "I have respect for Arlene, but she is wrong on this. GFA was voted for by overwhelming majority in NI & IRL, has helped to end violence and provided for the most prolonged period of peace and stability in NI’s history. We will defend and protect it through Brexit."

I would love to know how Mr. Coveny thinks he will “defend and protect” the GFA “through Brexit” if the British continue following the DUP lead and such amendments were voted through the House.

As I see it they could drive a tractor and trailer through it if they wish and no one would be able to do owt about it.

Not the UN.....any Palestinian will tell you how toothless that organisation is when a powerful nation ignores their diktats.

Not the White House.....the moron-in-chief has little or no interest in the matter.

Not the Nationalist people in the Six Counties as the people they vote into Westminster would not be there to speak on their behalf nor vote against any such amendment.

In short, the Catholics in the north of Ireland are going to be sold down the river for the second time in a century.

 

[Khalekan]

she wont care what they think, why on earth should the 85% of the population on the island of ireland have anything to say about the way the country is run

Indeed.

No one cared when 75% of the Irish people, throughout the entire island, voted for Separatist parties in 1918.

They just sent over the Black and Tans then drew an arbitrary line through the middle of Ulster and called it partition.

Inflicting a wound on the Irish people which as we are seeing played out before our very eyes, festers to this very day.

 

[davek]

The DUP's red lines are now "blood red" apparently:

“There cannot be a border down the Irish sea, a differential between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK,” DUP leader Arlene Foster told the BBC on Tuesday. The interview was aired on Wednesday. “The red line is blood red.”

“All along we have said: ‘No new regulatory alignment’,” Foster said.

When asked if she was prepared to vote down PM May on a Brexit deal, she said: “We don’t want to be in that position.”

“This is too important to be playing around with things because this is the union - this is what brought me into politics,” Foster said.

The DUP’s 10 lawmakers prop up May’s minority Conservative government.

Using emotive language like "blood red" is not very clever Arlene with regard to NI politics. It conjures up images of the past and people resorting to violence when they don't get their way. Absolutely stupid and unnecessary comment.

An election ends any say those troglodyte's have in the matter.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Yes, but the devil is in the detail.

That Border Poll can only be called by the sitting British PM if he or she “believes there would be a majority in favour of it”, whatever the heck that means.

And even if the vote was in favour of a united Ireland nowt would happen for seven years, at the end of which another Poll would be held.

And if I am not mistaken, in the event of a similiar result another seven years would elapse before a third and final Border Poll would see the British finally bid adieu to Ireland.

It is in a sense a rolling vote. The 2021 Census will report a Catholic majority in the 6 counties as first time voters.

The demographics of the North guarantee you a “Catholic” majority in 2021 but the Conservative Party and the DUP are working hard to deliver a Nationalist Majority in their same life time.

Brexit will be breakup of the U.K.