Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[davek]

It's not looking good:

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has delivered a downbeat assessment of the Brexit negotiations as he arrived for an informal dinner of EU leaders in Salzburg.

Mr Varadkar told reporters: "I don’t think we’re any closer to a withdrawal agreement than we were in March. So I can't report any progress at this stage unfortunately, but we’ll keep working on it."

Dismissing suggestions there had been progress in recent weeks on the Irish backstop, the Taoiseach said the UK still had to present an alternative text to the EU's initial draft, which was rejected by Prime Minister Theresa May in March.

"We’ve yet to see an alternative text from the United Kingdom government that anybody in the European Union finds to be acceptable, that actually satisfies what we need, which is an assurance that there won’t be a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, and that that backstop would apply unless and until we’re in a position to negotiate a new free trade agreement between the EU and UK."

He added: "The Irish position and the position of the European Union is as it has been from the very start. It’s that we want there to be a Withdrawal Agreement, a Withdrawal Agreement that provides for an orderly exit of the UK from the European Union.

"And we want there to be a transition period so people can adjust to any changes to the rules of trade that are going to take place."

Mr Varadkar said: "But we also have to have a backstop on NI and Ireland, one that assures us that a hard border will not emerge on our island, and that it has to be legally operable, and at this stage unfortunately the UK has not presented an alternative text to the EU text that we find acceptable."

Mr Varadkar insisted an agreement in principle on the backstop needed to be in place by the October European Council.

"I wouldn’t like to see it run into November or December, because that would create a lot of uncertainty for citizens and for business too."

He said the UK would have to move on its position.

If not, he said, "I don’t think anybody wants to contemplate a no deal scenario. I don’t believe a no deal scenario is where we’re heading. But certainly Ireland is prepared for it. We’re already started the process of hiring hundreds of people to staff our ports and airports.

"We’ve also started to approve the IT systems, the infrastructure that may need to be in place. I want to emphasise that’s for ports and airports on east/west trade. We’re not making any preparations for any form of hard border between north and south.

"Ireland would very much suffer in a no deal scenario. We don’t want that to happen. I think the UK would suffer a lot as well. And I think that’s why we need to redouble our efforts to aim to have an agreement in principle in October in the Withdrawal Agreement, on the Irish and Northern Ireland Protocol, and then use the period after that to draft the joint political declaration on the future relationship.

"But I think if any sense has been created that any form of significant progress has been made in the last couple of weeks, unfortunately that is not the case."

At the dinner this evening, Theresa May is expected to explain further her "Chequers" proposal. But she is also expected to firmly rule out the Commission’s latest suggestions on dedramatising the backstop.

Both leaders will hold a bilateral meeting in Salzburg tomorrow morning.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/0919/994793-salzburg/

It's time for another UK election. Get the DUP out of the road.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

It's not looking good:

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has delivered a downbeat assessment of the Brexit negotiations as he arrived for an informal dinner of EU leaders in Salzburg.

Mr Varadkar told reporters: "I don’t think we’re any closer to a withdrawal agreement than we were in March. So I can't report any progress at this stage unfortunately, but we’ll keep working on it."

Dismissing suggestions there had been progress in recent weeks on the Irish backstop, the Taoiseach said the UK still had to present an alternative text to the EU's initial draft, which was rejected by Prime Minister Theresa May in March.

"We’ve yet to see an alternative text from the United Kingdom government that anybody in the European Union finds to be acceptable, that actually satisfies what we need, which is an assurance that there won’t be a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland, and that that backstop would apply unless and until we’re in a position to negotiate a new free trade agreement between the EU and UK."

He added: "The Irish position and the position of the European Union is as it has been from the very start. It’s that we want there to be a Withdrawal Agreement, a Withdrawal Agreement that provides for an orderly exit of the UK from the European Union.

"And we want there to be a transition period so people can adjust to any changes to the rules of trade that are going to take place."

Mr Varadkar said: "But we also have to have a backstop on NI and Ireland, one that assures us that a hard border will not emerge on our island, and that it has to be legally operable, and at this stage unfortunately the UK has not presented an alternative text to the EU text that we find acceptable."

Mr Varadkar insisted an agreement in principle on the backstop needed to be in place by the October European Council.

"I wouldn’t like to see it run into November or December, because that would create a lot of uncertainty for citizens and for business too."

He said the UK would have to move on its position.

If not, he said, "I don’t think anybody wants to contemplate a no deal scenario. I don’t believe a no deal scenario is where we’re heading. But certainly Ireland is prepared for it. We’re already started the process of hiring hundreds of people to staff our ports and airports.

"We’ve also started to approve the IT systems, the infrastructure that may need to be in place. I want to emphasise that’s for ports and airports on east/west trade. We’re not making any preparations for any form of hard border between north and south.

"Ireland would very much suffer in a no deal scenario. We don’t want that to happen. I think the UK would suffer a lot as well. And I think that’s why we need to redouble our efforts to aim to have an agreement in principle in October in the Withdrawal Agreement, on the Irish and Northern Ireland Protocol, and then use the period after that to draft the joint political declaration on the future relationship.

"But I think if any sense has been created that any form of significant progress has been made in the last couple of weeks, unfortunately that is not the case."

At the dinner this evening, Theresa May is expected to explain further her "Chequers" proposal. But she is also expected to firmly rule out the Commission’s latest suggestions on dedramatising the backstop.

Both leaders will hold a bilateral meeting in Salzburg tomorrow morning.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/0919/994793-salzburg/

Am I right in thinking that any change to the border arrangements in Ireland are classified as a decision that has to be made by the people of NI, according to the GFA?

Surely what happens in regards to the border and whether the backstop is acceptable or not, is a decision for NI to make not Westminster?

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

It's time for another UK election. Get the DUP out of the road.

Indeed, would certainly help break the logjam.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Am I right in thinking that any change to the border arrangements in Ireland are classified as a decision that has to be made by the people of NI, according to the GFA?

Surely what happens in regards to the border and whether the backstop is acceptable or not, is a decision for NI to make not Westminster?

It would only be a wholesale change that would have to receive approval by the electorate, which basically means whether to get rid of it or not. The Brexit stuff is more about whether the border is visible again or remains invisible as it is at the moment, which is inter-governmental business.

 

[TraffordBlue]

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has delivered a downbeat assessment of the Brexit negotiations as he arrived for an informal dinner of EU leaders in Salzburg.

"Ireland would very much suffer in a no deal scenario. We don’t want that to happen. I think the UK would suffer a lot as well. And I think that’s why we need to redouble our efforts to aim to have an agreement in principle in October in the Withdrawal Agreement, on the Irish and Northern Ireland Protocol, and then use the period after that to draft the joint political declaration on the future relationship.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/0919/994793-salzburg/

More Project Fear!

We all know that Ireland and the Germans will certainly suffer but not us and we hold all the cards.

The UK will prosper. We'll be fine.

 

[arminisgod]

seriously why don't we just tell the EU to do one? We are leaving and there will be no hard border? If any Irish customs try to stop it we will just send troops over the border to dismantle any check points?

seriously what would the EU do??? It's time we called their bluff

 

[MarkK1988]

seriously why don't we just tell the EU to do one? We are leaving and there will be no hard border? If any Irish customs try to stop it we will just send troops over the border to dismantle any check points?

seriously what would the EU do??? It's time we called their bluff

christ

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

seriously why don't we just tell the EU to do one? We are leaving and there will be no hard border? If any Irish customs try to stop it we will just send troops over the border to dismantle any check points?

seriously what would the EU do??? It's time we called their bluff

Good grief.

 

[MarkK1988]

as someone from liverpool with a strong irish heritage i find the attitudes towards the emerald isle horrific if im being honest

 

[hullefc]

It's time for another UK election. Get the DUP out of the road.

Time for a border poll.

 

[edge]

seriously why don't we just tell the EU to do one? We are leaving and there will be no hard border? If any Irish customs try to stop it we will just send troops over the border to dismantle any check points?

seriously what would the EU do??? It's time we called their bluff

don't think we could get away with invading another county, but nothing stopping us saying we are not putting a border in place ,we have agreed with Eire in the good Friday agreement not to have a hard border in place and see no reason to change that.
Put the ball back to Eire and the EU to sort out and sit tight.

 

[Harryflashman]

seriously why don't we just tell the EU to do one? We are leaving and there will be no hard border? If any Irish customs try to stop it we will just send troops over the border to dismantle any check points?

seriously what would the EU do??? It's time we called their bluff

While we’re at it Might as well send troops through the tunnel as well, if them French get lippy. That or send a gunboat .

 

[davek]

Time for a border poll.

I have to laugh at May and the rest of the British political class calling for "the integrity" of the United Kingdom to be respected by the EU....completely overlooking the point that they argue for the continued occupation of land that was partioned and seized by threat of force and force itself.

 

[edge]

I have to laugh at May and the rest of the British political class calling for "the integrity" of the United Kingdom being respected by the EU....completeley overlooking the point that they argue for the continued occupation of land that was partioned and seized by threat of force and force itself.

to be honest Davek if they had a poll to give northern Ireland back to a united Ireland , most on the mainland would vote to do just that, its seen as a problem we can do without by most people outside the unionist community and the tory party.
They voted to stay in the EU let them have there wish.

 

[hullefc]

Am I right in thinking that any change to the border arrangements in Ireland are classified as a decision that has to be made by the people of NI, according to the GFA?

Surely what happens in regards to the border and whether the backstop is acceptable or not, is a decision for NI to make not Westminster?

Any change to the border arrangements I.e a hard border maybe due to WTO rules or with the Counter Terrorism and Border Security Bill - checking vehicles and people in a mile radius of the border will more than likely be challenged in the courts. The Northern Ireland Act 1989 Stormont arrangement and passing laws means no legislation can be passed that is against EU law. If it does passed then it goes to the ECJ to adjudicate on.

In the GFA the change to the 'border' I.e unification has to be put to a vote. A cross border vote will not be far off, quickened if there are border checks.