If offered right now, would you accept 4th place?

[Big Fat Sam]

Anybody who says no is a div.

 

[Cookachoo]

Idiots? That's a bit harsh, no doubt that sort of suggestion is why you get so much stick on here.

What about this.

Why don't Everton try and win the League mate. Then we're sorted. If you ain't going for the League, then you're some sort of football Politician / Strategist.

9 Titles. If we made that 10, or even came close, the new World will know our history.

And we want that, otherwise why do we sing?

What's our name?

Well not quite, I get so much stick on here because I'm a cynic and don't subscribe to the thinking that we're world beaters because we are 4th after playing less than half the season (remarkably the same position we were in roughly around this time last year, what happened there!?) This whole thread was just to get an understanding of how the majority felt.

My own personal opinion is clear, we have improved and we should recognise that. If, and that is a massive IF, we maintain this form then absolutely we can challenge for those top four places. To think some people would look beyond that is remarkable to me, and clearly to many others on here, as there is just no genuine justification for it. It'd bonkers!

I just don't want to see us building the team up for a fall, we need to be realistic in our expectations here because the team is going through a massive transition right now in every aspect, new manager, new playing style, new younger players coming in and some of the experienced old guard will start to fall away. To do that with little money and make top four would be a miracle in itself.

 

[johnnydawg68]

Well not quite, I get so much stick on here because I'm a cynic and don't subscribe to the thinking that we're world beaters because we are 4th after playing less than half the season (remarkably the same position we were in roughly around this time last year, what happened there!?) This whole thread was just to get an understanding of how the majority felt.

My own personal opinion is clear, we have improved and we should recognise that. If, and that is a massive IF, we maintain this form then absolutely we can challenge for those top four places. To think some people would look beyond that is remarkable to me, and clearly to many others on here, as there is just no genuine justification for it. It'd bonkers!

I just don't want to see us building the team up for a fall, we need to be realistic in our expectations here because the team is going through a massive transition right now in every aspect, new manager, new playing style, new younger players coming in and some of the experienced old guard will start to fall away. To do that with little money and make top four would be a miracle in itself.

I think it's more because you call fellow blues idiots just for being slightly more optimistic than you, based on what we're watching with our own eyes.

 

[Cookachoo]

I think it's more because you call fellow blues idiots just for being slightly more optimistic than you, based on what we're watching with our own eyes.

It's not slightly optimistic, it's beyond the delusional mate. It's almost embarrassing to see people genuinely debating whether or not we can challenge for the title. It's the kind of thing we call the other lot for and yet they are top of the league.

By the time we enter 2014, we could either be top or we could be 7th! It's far too congested at the top because it's still too early to tell. Serious question, do you think Spurs or Newcastle fans will be debating if they could win the title? With all due respect they are only a couple of wins away from being amongst it too, that's how fast these things can change.

 

[johnnydawg68]

It's not slightly optimistic, it's beyond the delusional mate. It's almost embarrassing to see people genuinely debating whether or not we can challenge for the title. It's the kind of thing we call the other lot for and yet they are top of the league.

By the time we enter 2014, we could either be top or we could be 7th! It's far too congested at the top because it's still too early to tell. Serious question, do you think Spurs or Newcastle fans will be debating if they could win the title? With all due respect they are only a couple of wins away from being amongst it too, that's how fast these things can change.

Thinking we might finish 3rd instead of 4th is beyond delusional??

Spurs and Newcastle aren't 2 points off the top mate. The table doesn't lie.

 

[Groucho]

It's not slightly optimistic, it's beyond the delusional mate. It's almost embarrassing to see people genuinely debating whether or not we can challenge for the title. It's the kind of thing we call the other lot for and yet they are top of the league.

By the time we enter 2014, we could either be top or we could be 7th! It's far too congested at the top because it's still too early to tell. Serious question, do you think Spurs or Newcastle fans will be debating if they could win the title? With all due respect they are only a couple of wins away from being amongst it too, that's how fast these things can change.

If we want to win more titles then we have to start somewhere - why not now?

And yes, we may call them over the park for it every year, but that's because they say the same thing every year, the only reason they can't be laughed at for it this year is because they, like us, are doing well. Usually they say it even when doing badly - that's what we ridicule.

And I think we have every right to talk about it and be optimistic, as we are only two points from the top of the league. If we can't talk about it then, then when mate? Be happy.

 

[dholliday]

It's not slightly optimistic, it's beyond the delusional mate. It's almost embarrassing to see people genuinely debating whether or not we can challenge for the title.

You're not doing yourself any favours. I do similar threads to you, snapshot poll to get a little idea what blues are thinking. But try not to use emotive language like "idiots" or "beyond delusional" to describe those with a different poll option to you.

And it's hardly delusional when:

We've played all the leading candidates, and only one bested us (Man City).

Finishing outside the top 3 would almost be a disappointment.

Aim high, blues.

 

[obc]

I don't think it's beyond delusional to talk of finishing at the top of the table given where the table now stands and given the way Everton have acquitted themselves. Haven't we played the most difficult schedule to date?

Some of those in our rare air still have to play one another before the 2nd half the season, while we have far more winnable matches.

As was posted earlier, it's a matter of closing out this half strong, then continuing to improve.

Do I expect us to win it?

No.

Do I hope we can?

Hell yes.

Would I be ecstatic if we finish 4th?

Yes.

As has been said, even if we continue to play like we have and fall short, I'll be proud of what they've managed to accomplish. I still recall people very early in the season bemoaning if 38 points would be enough to keep us from relegation. Instead we'll likely have that at the halfway point.

 

[Bald headed toff]

Der brain course you would

 

[BernieWright13]

Moyes would've snapped your hand off any year (and probably would now at utd). Interesting to know what Roberto would do. The way he's approached matches so far makes me doubt he'd take it. Neither would H K of 30 years ago. Incidentally, I think we finished 7th the season before we took the first of our 80's titles...

 

[nigelcoyb]

Take 4th now, if we become Champs in Roberto's 1st year with no money every major club in the world would come knocking for our blue bobby.

Fully understand we won't have him forever but need his foundations laid before that day - 2/3 years minimum please (champs next year will do just fine teehee)

 

[bluebud]

The last 12 Premier League seasons:-


[table="width: 500, class: grid, align: center"]
[tr]
[td]Year[/td]
[td]Our points[/td]
[td]Our position[/td]
[td]4th place points[/td]
[td]5th place points[/td]
[td]Winner points[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12/13 [/td]
[td]63 [/td]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]73 [/td]
[td]72 [/td]
[td]89[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11/12[/td]
[td]56[/td]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]69[/td]
[td]65 [/td]
[td]89[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10/11[/td]
[td]54[/td]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]68 [/td]
[td]62 [/td]
[td]80[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]09/10 [/td]
[td]61 [/td]
[td]8th [/td]
[td]70 [/td]
[td]67 [/td]
[td]86[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]08/09[/td]
[td]63 [/td]
[td]5th EL [/td]
[td] 72[/td]
[td]63[/td]
[td]90[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]07/08 [/td]
[td]65 [/td]
[td]5th EL[/td]
[td]76 [/td]
[td]65[/td]
[td]87[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]06/07[/td]
[td]58[/td]
[td]6th EL [/td]
[td]68[/td]
[td]60[/td]
[td]89[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]05/06[/td]
[td]50[/td]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]67[/td]
[td]65[/td]
[td]91[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]04/05 [/td]
[td]61[/td]
[td]4th CL[/td]
[td]61 [/td]
[td]58[/td]
[td]95[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]03/04 [/td]
[td]39[/td]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]60[/td]
[td]56 [/td]
[td]90[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]02/03[/td]
[td]59[/td]
[td]7th [/td]
[td]67 [/td]
[td]64[/td]
[td]83[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]01/02 [/td]
[td]43[/td]
[td]15th [/td]
[td]71 [/td]
[td] 66 [/td]
[td]87[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Average 4th place points 68.5
Average 5th place points 64(63.58)
Average winner points 88


73 points is the highest points required to beat 5th place, that was last year. Before that it was 68 in 09/10 and 67 in 01/02. If we can get to 40 points after 19 games we really will be well placed for fourth, requiring 33 points in the second half of the season to reach the record number of points ever needed to beat 5th place. Top of the table at the half way stage will be on a maximum of 42 points (it could be us on 40 though) which projected through the rest of the season would be 80-84 points to win the league. In the years with the lowest number of points to win the league 10/11 80 points, 09/10 86 points and 02/03 83 points the points required to beat 5th place was 63, 68 and 65. Martinez says he thinks 71 points will be enough for 4th which is more than all previous seasons except last season, last season 5 teams were contesting the top 5 spots, this year it looks like it could be 7 if United and Spurs can keep pace, if that's the case it looks like we will see record low points collected at the bottom of the table, only so many to play for at the end of the day. As mentioned by loads on here one game at a time, but who knows where we can end up, winning the league although unlikely is definitely within the realms of possibility of us this year. COYB

http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/league-table.html?season=2013-2014&month=DECEMBER&timelineView=date&toDate=1387670400000&tableView=CURRENT_STANDINGS

Oh and sorry in advance I can't make pie charts or bar graphs

 

[toffeestillidie]

I'm not really sure which thread to post this in, because it doesn't seem to warrant a thread of its own, but I just did a little comparison of the fixtures that both Everton and Liverpool have already played

Stoke (H) - Liverpool won 1-0, we won 4-0
Aston Villa (A) Liverpool won 1-0, we won 2-0
Swansea (A) Liverpool drew 2-2, we won 2-1
Arsenal A - Liverpool lost 2-0, we drew 1-1
Fulham (H) -Liverpool won 4-0, we won 4-1

When you total it up, out of the fixtures that both Liverpool and us have played thus far, we've taken 3 more points from those 5 games, and have a better goal difference by 6. Now this obviously isn't a perfect comparison, we are going to find many liverpool results, for instance a 5 goal win at WHL very difficult to imitate, but I think it in a way demonstrates how our relatively difficult schedule may actually be understating our position.

I also repeated the same exercise comparing us to Arsenal, and they came out 5 points ahead of us in commonly played fixtures (9 total games), they gained ground due to our draws against Spurs, Liverpool, Palace, and Cardiff. It's hard to draw conclusions from this, but as Arsenal are already ahead of us in the league, and seem to be doing better in the games that we've both played, I think this indicates that it will be more difficult to make up ground against Arsenal.

Really, this was just something I felt like doing on the day before Christmas Eve in the office to kill boredom, it may not mean much at all, but I think it's interesting to consider. The fact that we're doing better than Liverpool and worse than Arsenal in common games may be pure chance.

To the original question, my personal guess is that less than 5 points will separate 2nd from 6th, which means a finish anywhere in that range is very realistic. I don't want to play a difficult qualifier as the 4th place team, there is a chance 4th may not be good enough with all of the English teams advancing, and it seems like a little luck in a single fixture may take us higher up the table, so my answer is NO.

 

[dholliday]

Oh and sorry in advance I can't make pie charts or bar graphs

let's not go that far, mate.

 

[radiostar]

Yeah, i like the style of some saying "we want higher" but lets be realistic for a moment.