2017/18 Idrissa Gueye

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@Kever10, to continue our exchange a few posts ago you said:

'I'd love for someone to tell me what exactly it is he does that's so exceptional, and what, other than covering a lot of ground (less than Wayne Rooney in some games), it is that sets him apart from the rest.'



Those clips sum up the benefit he adds to the team. He doesn't give opposition players a moments peace. Some have hinted that he can only play it sideways or backwards when that is proven to be false just watching that video. He makes several positive runs quickly up the pitch.
 
EFC78 said:
Some fair points there, agree with parts of it. It's funny you mention about it being the trendy thing to do as it's not usually a position where people pick out someone to go over the top about. In my experience, I often think players like Mirallas get that because he is capable of the odd good goal.

But regarding my own opinion on Gana, maybe some people do act in the way you have mentioned but certainly not me. I just genuinely think he gives a lot to the team when in form and I value the running and energy he provides for the team. But then I rate McCarthy when fit for a very similar reason and I know most of this forum don't think he's very good. For me, every team needs a few players who will add that physical edge, get stuck in and put their body in the way. I use Barkley as an opposite example because he obviously has a lot of talent on the ball, far more than Gana or McCarthy, but I think he also lets himself down with his lack of effort and fight in games.

With Davies, he has to be starting in my opinion. He has that same energy as Gana but also gets us moving forward better and has a more creative side.
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I agree that he and Mccarthy both perform an often under appreciated role, and that every team needs players to have that work ethic. But let's take Mccarthy, and as I pointed out earlier, Lee Carsley, as counterpoints to the complete overreaction to his abilities. These are players who where criticised for their lack of ability on numberous occasions, for essentially fulfilling the same role.

My initial point wasn't that he is awful, just that he is not our best player, and the plaudits he receives don't correlate with the performances I've witnessed, certainly not this season. No matter how bad we have been, individually and/or collectively, Gueye seems to be singled out for praise. I think it's become a bit of a habit amongst our fans, certainly amongst the lazier people on Twitter, and I find the whole "best midfielder in the prem" and other such phony platitudes to be cringeworthy, because he most definitely isn't.

As I've said before, if it's shouted loud enough, and by enough people, it starts to become the truth to some, regardless of the facts.

He is a good player, not a great player, and personally, if it were me, I wouldn't have him and Schneiderlin in the same side again until we sort out the defence (new centre back and both fullbacks need replacing, hopefully Kenny will be 1 of them) and the so called creative midfielders start to take some responsibility at the other end.

In the meantime, my personal choice would be Schneiderlin and Davies.
 
Milkman said:
As mad as that is (considering Gana is our best player), I begrudgingly agree.
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I don't think there's one evertonian who doesn't like him (at least they shouldn't). But as a team if he's our best player then I don't see us progressing from last year.

Not a reflection on him mind you, just a reflection on our summer business. He's the least of our problems and should be an important part of a progressive team. But best player? Whether true or not, that discussion itself highlights the issues we have.
 
I cannot even imagine a side without him on the pitch. We would literally never get the ball back. His ability to win balls back and cover is second to none. He also keeps the ball once he's won it. He's our best player.

The Barry references are ridiculous. He said a complete statue and got exposed any time we played a decent side. He cannot pass like he used to and the fact that we got a million for him was a complete miracle. He was a huge liability on the field for us and is every bit as much for West Brom. Great player in his prime, but that was years ago.
 
nevsonlymate said:
Any one think Schneiderlin could play as a centre half? we already lack pace so that wouldn't change much but as said he reads the game well and could bring the ball out like Stones does, just a thought.
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I was thinking this while watching Williams the other day... only concern is that snides usually gets booked in the first 10 minutes and does like to throw himself into tackles and he does miss a few...
 
EFC78 said:
For a start there is a problem with the players you have mentioned here. The first 2 are 2 of the greatest defensive midfielders to grace the Premier League era, both having the obvious benefit of playing for title winning teams with vastly superior teammates. The third comparison with Gareth Barry is not fair either because Barry is a different type of midfield player to Gana, but was also a league title winner.

I don't know how you can watch Gana and not see what he brings to the team. If you're purely looking for exceptional ability on the ball, goals, crossfield passes etc then you're obviously not going to get that with him, but that's not where his strengths lie so it is pointless for the fans to expect it of him.

What he does exceptionally well is prevent opposition players from having any time on the ball. Similar to what McCarthy brought to the team in the 13-14 season. He makes interceptions, blocks, tackles, prevents opposition counter attacks, covers the defence when needed, 'runs round a lot' which is actually a positive for someone in his position even though the suggestion will probably get laughed at. These are all attributes that help the team as a whole. And obviously he is more limited on the ball than someone like Barkley but that is why each player has a different role in the team. You need players who can stop the opposition as much as you need players who can get past the opposition in an attack.

I thought he had a poor game by his standards on Saturday, as did Schneiderlin. But I also noticed the crowd in their desperation were getting agitated by backwards passing because everyone was so desperate for us to get back in the game. There were times when Schneiderlin had no realistic option but to play a backwards pass in order to keep possession and loads were going mental. Just because we're losing doesn't mean Gueye and Schneiderlin will turn in to Messi and be able to fly past players and bang in the goals. Their passing game relies on keeping hold of the ball and giving it to better players. Barkley could learn a thing or 2 about this and is why he's never kicked on as a player because he tries unrealistic things in unrealistic situations and loses possession easily.

Of the 2 i'd drop Schniederlin at the moment. Davies has to play too.
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Erm mate, I think those two could learn much more about ball retention from Barkley than the other way around. Barkley's problems come from decision making in the final third, something that Gueye and Schneiderlin don't really have to worry about.

I agree with your last point though, for home games one of them has to be dropped unless we're playing a superior side.

That said I expect neither to feature against Limassol with Besic, Davies and Klassen in the middle like they were against Sunderland.
 
Furey1878 said:
Erm mate, I think those two could learn much more about ball retention from Barkley than the other way around. Barkley's problems come from decision making in the final third, something that Gueye and Schneiderlin don't really have to worry about.

I agree with your last point though, for home games one of them has to be dropped unless we're playing a superior side.

That said I expect neither to feature against Limassol with Besic, Davies and Klassen in the middle like they were against Sunderland.
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I was referring to when those players (and most midfielders) receive the ball facing their own goal in their own half. The crowd demand the players to do something more 'positive' than simply play a 5 yard pass back to the defence. It's something Barkley was actually incapable of doing on quite a few occasions and I can give you an example.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ey-talks-half-time-substitution-a7239706.html

Sunderland away last season when he was hauled off by Koeman after 45 mins. There was one point where he lost the ball 2 or 3 times near his own box in the space of about 2 minutes, and the fans were screaming at him. A lot of these same fans will then expect the far more limited (on the ball) Gueye and Schneiderlin to produce something in those situations and slam them for being negative when they choose the sensible option of retaining possession.

I'm not saying they have an excuse every time for just playing a simple 5-10 yard ball by the way. On some occasions they do need to do more with it.
 
There are a alot more players worthy of criticism than Gueye this season.

Koeman has messed that misfiled up in nearly every single game thus far. We all know the quality Gueye has, once the midfield settles he will be a key player once again.
 
mikeh72 said:
No one can be immune from criticism for poor performances, and he was chronic on Saturday.
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I don't think he had a great game, but he wasn't 'chronic'.

Given the games we have coming up, though - against opposition that we should dominate possession against - I don't think there is as much need for him.
 
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