Current Affairs How old were you when you grew up and stopped voting Labour?

[neil999]

I think you may be right about an SDP Mk2. The extremes within Labour now seem to be too extreme to accommodate within a single party. However I don’t really see any political heavyweights within the right of the party who would have the charisma to lead it. For many of these people it’s just a well paid job and a stepping stone to further well paid jobs......

Nail on the head

 

[Bruce Wayne]

No, I'm a democratic socialist. I dont believe in vanguardism. The LP is a social democratic party and the Corbyn leadership and Momentum are bringing that party back to its roots. If the neo-liberals who infiltrated the party in the 90s to make it just another creature of the market feel like they're now marginalised they should do what Jenkins, Williams, Rodgers and Owen had the courage to do in the 80s and get out and form their own centre ground party.

I cant see the objection to the reinvigorated LP under Corbyn's leadership: after all, wasn't the long held gripe that "politicians and political parties are all the same now and there's no choice"?

Well there is one now...and the replacement of (and exodus of) Blairites that will hopefully continue apace will make that choice all the more substantial.

All power to our more varied political spectrum I say.

Potato potato isn't it? Both Corbyn and the Socialists want to live in a socialist country, but Corbyn wants to achieve that via a vote whereas the Socialists want to achieve it via the kind of revolution John McDonald dreams about at night.

I agree that a diversity of political options is a good thing, I just wish they weren't all so awful.

 

[davek]

Potato potato isn't it? Both Corbyn and the Socialists want to live in a socialist country, but Corbyn wants to achieve that via a vote whereas the Socialists want to achieve it via the kind of revolution John McDonald dreams about at night.

I agree that a diversity of political options is a good thing, I just wish they weren't all so awful.

Socialism has a different delivery system for different people depending on their view of what it constitutes. It's not monolithic.

As far as I can tell, the socialism of Corbyn is an ideology whereby the state has a greater role to play in the way the economy and social life are organised, but it doesn't reject completely the market as a vehicle that can be made use of in order to fulfil that objective. He's basically old Labour, with their emphasis on a mixed economy and a strong welfare state. All of which is a lot different to the seizure of the commanding heights of an economy and running everything along the lines of a workers state - a socialism that's ended up as a bureaucratic dictatorship when tried in the past.

It's a sign of just how shockingly conformist the political culture became after the 90s that what Corbyn represents is seen as a slippery slope to the Gulag.

 

[peteblue]

Socialism has a different delivery system for different people depending on their view of what it constitutes. It's not monolithic.

As far as I can tell, the socialism of Corbyn is an ideology whereby the state has a greater role to play in the way the economy and social life are organised, but it doesn't reject completely the market as a vehicle that can be made use of in order to fulfil that objective. He's basically old Labour, with their emphasis on a mixed economy and a strong welfare state. All of which is a lot different to the seizure of the commanding heights of an economy and running everything along the lines of a workers state - a socialism that's ended up as a bureaucratic dictatorship when tried in the past.

It's a sign of just how shockingly conformist the political culture became after the 90s that what Corbyn represents is seen as a slippery slope to the Gulag.

That might sound a bit more plausible if he once in a while admonished the likes of Venezuela, for the absolute dogs dinner they have made of things, instead of always holding them up as a shining light......

 

[davek]

That might sound a bit more plausible if he once in a while admonished the likes of Venezuela, for the absolute dogs dinner they have made of things, instead of always holding them up as a shining light......

He probably (rightly) sees the Chavez regime as one that accomplished a lot of good in terms of redistribution of wealth, the development of a decent system of health care and education and distributor of oil wealth and technical expertise to neighbouring dirt poor countries. And he probably sees the reality of why it began to deteriorate: the flight of capital out of the country, U.S. embargoes and constant incursions on its borders.

 

[peteblue]

He probably (rightly) sees the Chavez regime as one that accomplished a lot of good in terms of redistribution of wealth, the development of a decent system of health care and education and distributor of oil wealth and technical expertise to neighbouring dirt poor countries. And he probably sees the reality of why it began to deteriorate: the flight of capital out of the country, U.S. embargoes and constant incursions on its borders.

No Dave, it is an enormously oil wealthy basket case led by idiots........

 

[Jib in lad]

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The allegations do sound ridiculous and getting more so, but it's perfectly possible to be all of those things. Indeed, Stalin was the original pervayor of 'citizens of nowhere' jibes, and they were largely made against Jews.

It does beg the question of whether anyone really takes any notice though or whether it's simply convincing people that already knew they hated Corbyn that they were 'right' to hate him? It's hard to imagine readers of the Mail ever voting Labour, for instance.

 

[Jib in lad]

The allegations do sound ridiculous and getting more so, but it's perfectly possible to be all of those things. Indeed, Stalin was the original pervayor of 'citizens of nowhere' jibes, and they were largely made against Jews.

It does beg the question of whether anyone really takes any notice though or whether it's simply convincing people that already knew they hated Corbyn that they were 'right' to hate him? It's hard to imagine readers of the Mail ever voting Labour, for instance.

It nonsense and almost everyone knows it.

You expect it from your political opponents but when the BBC is pushing it for all its worth and Labour MPs are doing the same on the eve of local elections then it is deeply troubling for our so called democracy .

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Been noticing the narrative changing somewhat from Friday, now it's become obvious that the accusations of Corbyn being an anti-semite through the graffiti comment don't stand up to much scrutiny. Now we're being told that he's too tolerant or flippant of anti-semitism. One winner, in this, its Jeremy Corbyn!

Anti-Semite is churned out to shut down debate about issues that have nothing to do with the terms original intention or definition. It’s such a lost term now, it’s very sad.

 

[peteblue]

Been noticing the narrative changing somewhat from Friday, now it's become obvious that the accusations of Corbyn being an anti-semite through the graffiti comment don't stand up to much scrutiny. Now we're being told that he's too tolerant or flippant of anti-semitism. One winner, in this, its Jeremy Corbyn!

Anti-Semite is churned out to shut down debate about issues that have nothing to do with the terms original intention or definition. It’s such a lost term now, it’s very sad.

When I read your post, I have this impression of someone with their eyes closed, hands over ears, shouting LALALALALA.....

 

[peteblue]

It nonsense and almost everyone knows it.

You expect it from your political opponents but when the BBC is pushing it for all its worth and Labour MPs are doing the same on the eve of local elections then it is deeply troubling for our so called democracy .

Unless of course there’s any truth in it...

 

[peteblue]

Well, if the Stalin cap fits.......

 

[Jib in lad]

Well, if the Stalin cap fits.......

Pete you should be ashamed of yourself using antisemetisam to have a go at Corbyn its sickening.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

When I read your post, I have this impression of someone with their eyes closed, hands over ears, shouting LALALALALA.....

The graffiti?

or what anti-semitism means now in 2018?

Anti-Semite is churned out to shut down debate about issues that have nothing to do with the terms original intention or definition. It’s such a lost term now, it’s very sad.