How Difficult is it to Improve our Football?

[Neiler]

It's a mixture of both, the players and the manager.

Moyes doesn't like his defence taking risks, I've seen him say it time and time again in interviews. He's got a "get rid" mentality, old school defending. Good teams do the opposite, they pass the ball out ot defense.

If your team is doing it them you instruct Osman or Rodwell to drop deep and give the defence an option. It's called tactics. If they aren't doing it move a man in in the middle who will, Mikel Arteta.

We don't have an attacking game plan, there's no link up play at all. We hoof it up field and hope our quality players pick it up in the final third.

The fact that he can't get a team playing with the likes of Yakubu, Saha, Baines, Osman, Arteta, Pienaar, Cahill etc playing decent football just proves to me that the man doesn't play that yet.

Tony Mowbray can get West Brom retaining possession and pass and move, he'd had far less money than Moyes.

I don't want rid because his record speaks for itself, he gets results. If we want to move on though then the football has to change, he needs to change his mentality.

Harsh at best mate, i would argue that Rodwell doesnt have the expeirence yet of the game to view the game as a whole, while i dont think Ossie has those type of attributes to his game to be effective as a midfiled anchor. Who does? Fellini for me but i wont bang on again about his role in turning over play. We missed him today for turing over our play and spreading it through the midfeild. In recent weeks the hoof ball had disuded but returned today mainly i beleive because we missed Fellini. This year praticularly hoof ball has been evident because we miss Carsley.

I can understand why you point the finger at Moyes but hes right you shouldnt take risks out of defence. I dont think Moyes goes into games with this game plan, it just occurs because our midfeild is bad, your next question is why is it bad, simple answer is we havent signed anyone to replace what we have lost or even to improve what we had, should Moyes have signed more players? Without a doubht but then you run into the fact that we were skint or couldnt get the players we wanted. The simple truth is the midfeild wasnt and isnt good enough today or this season to provide an outlet for the defence. Who fault is it, to a degree the Clubs in terms of provideing finance and the transfer window was a debacle, to a degree Moyes's for possibly being bloody minded about the type of players he wants to bring in and wont bring in someone without the quality to drasticly improve us, its personal opinion but i think hes right, im not saying it doesnt have an impact prenently but i do beleive hes right.

Its a bit of a bad comparrison comparing us to West Brom and in a way you contrdict yourself. They may play attractive football but get tonked every second week and while they may earn plenty of friends that will be little consolation if they get relegated. So who right Daivd Moyes taking the safety in defence option or Tony Mowbory at West Brom who are surely amongst one of the favourates for the drop, the table doesnt lie in terms of which style is the more effective.

 

[Brownie]

It's a mixture of both, the players and the manager.

Moyes doesn't like his defence taking risks, I've seen him say it time and time again in interviews. He's got a "get rid" mentality, old school defending. Good teams do the opposite, they pass the ball out ot defense.

If your team is doing it them you instruct Osman or Rodwell to drop deep and give the defence an option. It's called tactics. If they aren't doing it move a man in in the middle who will, Mikel Arteta.

We don't have an attacking game plan, there's no link up play at all. We hoof it up field and hope our quality players pick it up in the final third.

The fact that he can't get a team playing with the likes of Yakubu, Saha, Baines, Osman, Arteta, Pienaar, Cahill etc playing decent football just proves to me that the man doesn't play that yet.

Tony Mowbray can get West Brom retaining possession and pass and move, he'd had far less money than Moyes.

I don't want rid because his record speaks for itself, he gets results. If we want to move on though then the football has to change, he needs to change his mentality.

I've never really realised that. Out of those you could only say that Cahill hasn't got a great first touch, and even his is adequate. Especially when you add Fellaini in there, we should be playing some pretty good passing football. I would say though that only really Mikel is any good at shielding the ball, Cahill's body shape isn't very good and Pienaar and Ossie get muscled out of it a lot. All in all I'd say only really Arteta and Yak are good enough to back themselves to not lose the ball under any circumstances unless they get unlucky.

I think our main weakness are lack of pace through the side bar up front and in particular our fullbacks. Neville is a run of the mill old school right back and Lescott is just not a natural enough footballer to play the position. Plus I still think all our defence as a whole is [Poor language removed] on the ball.

 

[chicoazul]

We were absolute gash until the 83rd minute today, we had no movement, no fight for the ball but once again we spawned a win. I like that [Poor language removed].

Cahill needs dropping, as does Lescott and Arteta needs to find some form.

Dont get me wrong, we're the greatest team the world has ever seen but we play some [Poor language removed] football and theres no getting away from that.

Thanks to GrandOldTeam and a2bChris for match company.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Harsh at best mate, i would argue that Rodwell doesnt have the expeirence yet of the game to view the game as a whole while i dont think Ossie has those type of attributes to his game to be effective as a midfiled anchor? Who does Fellini for me but i wont bang on again about his role in turning over the play. We missed him today for turing over our play and spreading it through the midfeild. In recent weeks the hoof ball had disuded but returned today mainly i beleive we missed Fellini and has been evident this year preticularly because we miss Carsley.

I can understand that why you point the finger at Moyes but hes right you shouldnt take risks out of defence. I dont think Moyes ges into games with this game plan it just occurs because our midfeild is bad, your next question is why is it bad, simple answer is we havent signed anyone to replace what we have lost in the squad, should Moyes have signed more players? Without a doubht but then you run into the fact that we were skint or couldnt get the players we wanted. The simple truth is the midfeild wasnt good enough today or this season to provide an outlet for the defence. Who fault is it, to a degree the Clubs in terms of prvideing finance, to a degree Moyes's for possibly being bloody minded about the type of players he want to bring in, its personal opinion but i think hes right.

Its a bit of a bad comparrison comparing combaring us to West Brom and in a way you contrdict yourself. They may play attractive football but get tonked every second week and while they may earn plenty of friends that will be little consolation if they get relegated. So who right Daivd Moyes taking the safety in defence option or Tony Mowbory at West Brom who are surely amongst one of the favourates for the drop, the table doesnt lie in terms of which style is the more effective.

Moyes has better players than Tony Mowbray, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't take big money to get players retaining possession and stringing three passes together. It doesn't, football is played on the ground and anyone no matter what the quality should be able to pass and move.

They don't have amazing technical players at there disposal nor do they have alot of money to spend. What they do have is a manager with a footballing mentality.

We don't even retain possession, we have smacked it long consistently under Moyes. For 6 years now bar one or two purple patches here and there. Nothing has changed, we still play percentage long ball football.

Once we play a half decent team in Europe we are turned over because are players aren't used to keeping possession and being the team on top. We can overcome the likes of Nuremburg, Larissa etc playing our percentage football but once we come to someone like Fiorentina, Liege and Villarreal we crumble. We look edgy and we don't suit the European game. Moyes's European record isn't very good at all, I think style of play is a big issue.

Every team should take chances, all the top teams play out of defence. The likes of Arsenal, Liverpool, Man utd and Chelsea all spring to mind. It's the way forward, it always has been.

He's had 6 years to change our stlye of play and nothing has happened. It just hasn't improved and he is a big part of that. They are his players and they play his way.

It's not harsh, it's realistic. He is the manager at the end of the day and these are his players. West Ham played some great stuff today, they didn't spend massively in the summer. They've just got a new system, a new style and there working on it. It may take time but there are way of changing and improving your style of play.

Moyes just isn't that type of manager nor will he ever be, if Dom wants good football then he wants a new manager.

 

[Cal]

Finally he gets it, but we do need some1 to play alongside him, none of the players we have at the moment are the answer.

As if.

I'm nearer to world class then Fellaini.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

As if.

I'm nearer to world class then Fellaini.

You are class to be fair, the next Paul Scholes I've heard.

 

[Cal]

You are class to be fair, the next Paul Scholes I've heard.

I'd probably rate myself around an upcoming talent like Pato.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

I'd probably rate myself around an upcoming talent like Pato.

I thought you where a deep lying play maker?

 

[Goat]

I thought you where a deep lying play maker?

HES [Poor language removed].

 

[Neiler]

Moyes has better players than Tony Mowbray, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't take big money to get players retaining possession and stringing three passes together. It doesn't, football is played on the ground and anyone no matter what the quality should be able to pass and move.

They don't have amazing technical players at there disposal nor do they have alot of money to spend. What they do have is a manager with a footballing mentality.

We don't even retain possession, we have smacked it long consistently under Moyes. For 6 years now bar one or two purple patches here and there. Nothing has changed, we still play percentage long ball football.

Once we play a half decent team in Europe we are turned over because are players aren't used to keeping possession and being the team on top. We can overcome the likes of Nuremburg, Larissa etc playing our percentage football but once we come to someone like Fiorentina, Liege and Villarreal we crumble. We look edgy and we don't suit the European game. Moyes's European record isn't very good at all, I think style of play is a big issue.

Every team should take chances, all the top teams play out of defence. The likes of Arsenal, Liverpool, Man utd and Chelsea all spring to mind. It's the way forward, it always has been.

He's had 6 years to change our stlye of play and nothing has happened. It just hasn't improved and he is a big part of that. They are his players and they play his way.

It's not harsh, it's realistic. He is the manager at the end of the day and these are his players. West Ham played some great stuff today, they didn't spend massively in the summer. They've just got a new system, a new style and there working on it. It may take time but there are way of changing and improving your style of play.

Moyes just isn't that type of manager nor will he ever be, if Dom wants good football then he wants a new manager.

Simple fact is WBA loose games, regardless of how well thay play they loose games, they are more then likely going to be relegated, the style of football they play isnt effective nor are they competitve. Yes we have better quality players but the fact is Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea have better quality players and can drop 20 mill on a single player be it a defender or a midfilder or whatever. So to play beutifull passing open football with these teams may be pleaseing to watch but if you get tonked by these teams 3-0 you wont care how we played. Simple fact is they have better players because they have the money to buy better players and we cant compete with them on an even footing playing the way desire! So how do you become competitive, you grit, you battle, you fight, you play percentage football and you hope that your quality will get you a result. You speak of percentage football and your right if things arent on an equal footing with your opponents you have to play to your strengths to be competitive sometimes thats not pleaseing on the eye, but its the only way for us to be competitive. You cant criticise Moyes for this ideology as its proved effective and argueably we have been the most consistently competitive club outside the top four for many seasons. So its effective proof of the pudding and all that.

I know you will say, we should play beter football against weaker sides, i agree, i think we can and in many ways do. I dont agree that our style of football has remained the same, some of the stuff we played over the last four seasons has been great and wholly entertaining i agree that some of the stuff this year has been dire, but i have given my reasons for that. I dont think its fair to say Moyes hasnt changed the style of football at the club in six years.

There needs to be a balance in being competiitve, wining games and playing the most entertaining way and being effective. Something has to give as we are not on a level playing feild finacealy with the top four or for that matter most clubs in the PL. If it means attractive football is the price for being effective and remaining the most compeitive club outside the top four i dont care.

The fact that we have had european football to anlyse is my case in point that Moyes style of play is effective. I dont agree that we have been crushed by any team we have faced in Europe.

In conlusion i have thouraghly enjoyed almost all the football over the past four seasons, ok its not so good at the mo but the fact wwe have a problem with it just shows how well Moyes has done in spoiling us all rotten.

 

[Brownie]

What we could really do with is Moyes luckily happening across good footballers. He said loads of times he's been surprised how good the Yak is at actually playing football. With a couple more oh-[Poor language removed]-let's-sign-Fellaini signings he could be forced into playing a passing game because the players will revolt otherwise. I've heard Antônio Augusto Ribeiro Reis Junior Pernambucano might be available on a cheeky little loan in Jan. Come on Juninhlalalalala.

 

[Brownie]

Simple fact is WBA loose games, regardless of how they loose games, they are more then likely going to be relegated, the style of football they play isnt effective. Yes we have better quality players but the fact is Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea have better quality players and can drop 20 mill on a single player be it a defender or a midfilder or whatever. So to play beutifull passing open football with these teams may be pelaseing to watch but if you get tonked by these teams 3-0 you wont care how we played, siimple fact is they have better players because they have the money to buy better players and we cant compete with them on an even footing playing the way you and i supporse the rest of us desire! So how do you become competitive, you grit, you battle, you fight, you play percentage football and you hope that your quality will get you a result. You speak of percentage football and your right if things arent on an equal footing with your opponents you have to play to your strengths to be competitive sometimes thats not pleaseing on the eye, but its the only way for us to be competitive. You cant criticise Moyes for this ideology as its proved effective and argueably wer have been consistently competitive club outside the top four for many seasons. So its effective proof of the pudding and all that.

I know you will say, we should play beter football against weaker sides i agree i think we can and in many ways have, i dont agree that our style of football has remained the same, some of the stuff we played over the last four seasons has been great and wholly entertaining i agree that some of the stuff this year has been dire, but i have given my reasons for that. I dont think its fair to say Moyes hasnt changed the style of football at the club in six years.

There needs to be a balance in being competiitve, wining games and playing the most entertaining way and being effective. Something has to give as we are not on a level playing feild finacealy with the top four or for that matter most clubs in the PL. If it means attractive football is the price for being effective and remaining the most compeitive club outside the top four i dont care.

The fact that we have had european football to anlyse is my case in point that Moyes style of play is effective. I dont agree that we have been crushed by any team we have faced in Europe.

In conlusion i have thouraghly enjoyed almost all the football over the past four seasons, ok its not so good at the mo but the fact wwe have a problem with it just shows how well Moyes has done in spoiling us all rotten.

In a lot of ways you're right, our players aren't that goodand we can't afford better. Still it just makes me sick that pretty much every team in the premier league is [Poor language removed] and we're not better than them.

 

[Robert Jarvis]

We could still play better football and win, it is all down to Moyes.

 

[ToxtethBlue]

Simple fact is WBA loose games, regardless of how they loose games, they are more then likely going to be relegated, the style of football they play isnt effective. Yes we have better quality players but the fact is Liverpool, Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea have better quality players and can drop 20 mill on a single player be it a defender or a midfilder or whatever. So to play beutifull passing open football with these teams may be pelaseing to watch but if you get tonked by these teams 3-0 you wont care how we played, siimple fact is they have better players because they have the money to buy better players and we cant compete with them on an even footing playing the way you and i supporse the rest of us desire! So how do you become competitive, you grit, you battle, you fight, you play percentage football and you hope that your quality will get you a result. You speak of percentage football and your right if things arent on an equal footing with your opponents you have to play to your strengths to be competitive sometimes thats not pleaseing on the eye, but its the only way for us to be competitive. You cant criticise Moyes for this ideology as its proved effective and argueably wer have been consistently competitive club outside the top four for many seasons. So its effective proof of the pudding and all that.

I know you will say, we should play beter football against weaker sides i agree i think we can and in many ways have, i dont agree that our style of football has remained the same, some of the stuff we played over the last four seasons has been great and wholly entertaining i agree that some of the stuff this year has been dire, but i have given my reasons for that. I dont think its fair to say Moyes hasnt changed the style of football at the club in six years.

There needs to be a balance in being competiitve, wining games and playing the most entertaining way and being effective. Something has to give as we are not on a level playing feild finacealy with the top four or for that matter most clubs in the PL. If it means attractive football is the price for being effective and remaining the most compeitive club outside the top four i dont care.

The fact that we have had european football to anlyse is my case in point that Moyes style of play is effective. I dont agree that we have been crushed by any team we have faced in Europe.

In conlusion i have thouraghly enjoyed almost all the football over the past four seasons, ok its not so good at the mo but the fact wwe have a problem with it just shows how well Moyes has done in spoiling us all rotten.

I'm not asking for fancy dan, open, free flowing football. I'm asking for a bit of composure and a few passes stringed together. Consistently I see other teams better than us, around our level and beneath us playing this way. We struggle to do the basics.

I don't mind long ball football if it's played properly. Joe Royle's dogs of war for example played to there strengths. We had a target man, we had pace outwide and we had battlers in the middle of the park. They revelled that way and I loved watching them play. We had a style of we stuck to it.

The problem with Moyes is his style of football does not compliment our footballers. He sticks our most creative players outwide and we don't play with a passer in the middle who can give it to them in dangerous areas, we hit it long and we don't play with a target man.

We have small technically gifted players who like the ball at there feet. They aren't going to mix it, there not going to win headers and high tempo percentage football does not suit them.

If West Brom can retain possession we can, I'm not asking for Arsenal total football. Any team with the right training and mentality can pass the ball and retain it. Dom obviously wants better football as do alot of other fans.

I want an improvement personally, in my opinion it's depressing watching us and it has been for a while now. We have players who can play decent football and I'd like to see them and David Moyes do that. We'd be a much better and more effective side.

 

[chicoazul]

We do play horrendous football at times. Like this season.