Holgate Racially Abused By Firmino - The Guardian

[tim cahill]

If I was called a "crazy son of a bitch" I would probably laugh. If I was black and was called if, I think, I would also just laugh. Seeing as Firmino likely doesn't know Holgate's mother I am sure he wouldn't take it personally. I don't see what race has to do with being called a son of a bitch. That said, maybe something else was said. Who knows - we certainly don't.

We know that Holgate thinks he used the n word. I would be amazed if he was wrong about that. It should’ve been dealt with by now whether he’s right or wrong though.

 

[number4.]

Rules of the Football Association: E CONDUCT-GENERAL BEHAVIOUR

3 (1)

"A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour."

Firmino - bang to rights. Just a question whether he receives a charge and longer ban on his racism.

"Bang to Rights" - Get Real. Yes under the rules he is guilty of abusive or insulting words, but that's a Yellow Card offence at worst. It's not a red, it's certainly not a long term ban akin to racially abusing someone.

 

[number4.]

Is it conceivable, that on review MH (possibly after seeing another Angle) has seen that RF didn't racially abuse. The FA approach both clubs to mediate and agree to park case without comment with a view to preventing other players fearing coming forward. If so it is probably counterproductive, give the lack of an FA update, the optics certainly appear that MH is being treated with utter contempt.

 

[TraffordBlue]

This is all very paranoid based opinion without any real substance IMO.

If the referee had put it in his report and if anybody had come forward and actually backed up Holgate's claim, then there might be a case to answer. At present though, how is anybody supposed to take this forward without any real evidence?

The consensus seems to be that he insulted him in Portugese and also that his skin colour was not used. He actually called him a "crazy son of a bitch"? or something along those lines.

If there is clear evidence that Holgate was racially abused then it needs dealing with, as of yet though that is still very unclear.

Is it? Only by Kopites and those who are too thick to acknowledge that the Puta part of the insults are completely irrelevant to the case as they happened BEFORE the alleged racist comment. Holgate appears to suggest that "he called me a N..."

Unless something further has come out that I have missed? In which case I will take back what I have said.

If not though, the FA should be made to provide an update and I find it pathetic that they have moved quickly on the Rodriguez-Bong case and yet nothing seems to have been said about this one. All I expect is an update, although I would have thought they could have reached a decision and a plan of how they are going to deal with the situation, whatever they think has gone on.

 

[toffee-L]

I think the FA are going for the "lets wait until it all blows over and forgets about it strategy", it appears the media have gone and done just that. I totally believe that Holgate made an honest accusation, but I also accept that there is a genuine lack of evidence problem due to there apparently being no corroborating witnesses. If the FA had come out and said that they did not doubt Holgate's integrity, but there was a lack of evidence to take his case any further then I certainly would have respected that outcome. The fact that they have completely frozen on this issue though, in comparison to the Bong-Rodriguez incident is very unsettling.

I certainly don't agree with the argument on this thread though that Firmino should be banned for the S.O.B shout. It was a derby, he'd just gone face first over the advertising board (hope it hurt) so was within his rights to let off a verbal tirade. If people started getting bans for using that kind of language then the game might as well pack it in. Our players will use that language too remember, and if one of ours got banned for something that mild we'd be furious.

 

[AsiaAsia82]

I’m interested to know on what evidence Rodriquez was charged, ie is there video evidence of him using the word or just Bong’s allegation.
If it is only Bong’s allegation then that is inconsistent with the Holgate incident and does smack of double standards.

 

[toffee-L]

I’m interested to know on what evidence Rodriquez was charged, ie is there video evidence of him using the word or just Bong’s allegation.
If it is only Bong’s allegation then that is inconsistent with the Holgate incident and does smack of double standards.

He was caught holding his nose and wafting his hand in front of it as if to imply that Bong stunk, I've got no idea if he used words making reference to Bong's ethnicity while doing so but the charge alleges that he did.

 

[Yarrgh]

This is all very paranoid based opinion without any real substance IMO.

If the referee had put it in his report and if anybody had come forward and actually backed up Holgate's claim, then there might be a case to answer. At present though, how is anybody supposed to take this forward without any real evidence?

The consensus seems to be that he insulted him in Portugese and also that his skin colour was not used. He actually called him a "crazy son of a bitch"? or something along those lines.

If there is clear evidence that Holgate was racially abused then it needs dealing with, as of yet though that is still very unclear.

If there is no "real" evidence, then the FA should state this. We belong in a time and place, where we assume innocence, and that would be the end of it. Certainly it would take some time to collate and consider that evidence, but coming up to 6 weeks later and an absence of any information? This benefits no party involved.

As for the consensus, I accept that he was insulted in Portugese. I also can see clearly with my own eyes, that when there is an obstruction caused by Kenny were there is every chance that something is said that causes an extreme reaction in Holgate. Now I don't know how Holgate could engineer these events to incriminate falsely an innocent Firminio, and unfortunately this brief moment holds the key to everything from my take on this. If you're in Firminio's corner, you say nothing happened, if you believe Holgate then this is the moment. If you are neutral, like the FA, you wait until the end of the investigation to come to its conclusion, however satisfatory or unsatisfactory that is.

 

[davek]

32 days it took the FA in the Suarez-Evra saga to come to a decision: received allegation on Oct 15th, charge made on Nov 16th.

40 days and counting now since Jan 5th when the Holgate-Firmino story began.

Hats off to the Liverpool Echo btw for their interest in the story. That's what local journalism is all about.

 

[Yarrgh]

32 days it took the FA in the Suarez-Evra saga to come to a decision: received allegation on Oct 15th, charge made on Nov 16th.

40 days and counting now since Jan 5th when the Holgate-Firmino story began.

Hats off to the Liverpool Echo btw for their interest in the story. That's what local journalism is all about.

What really annoys me from an Evertonian point of view is that there is no tame journalist asking at every Everton press conference what the progress is, just so Big Sam can say that there is no progress from the FA. It needs to be kept in the open and not allowed to be hidden away like it has.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

He was caught holding his nose and wafting his hand in front of it as if to imply that Bong stunk, I've got no idea if he used words making reference to Bong's ethnicity while doing so but the charge alleges that he did.

Maybe he did stink. Tbf I know black people who stink. I know white people who stink too. Perhaps he literally did just smell a bit off.

 

[Saint Domingo]

32 days it took the FA in the Suarez-Evra saga to come to a decision: received allegation on Oct 15th, charge made on Nov 16th.

40 days and counting now since Jan 5th when the Holgate-Firmino story began.

Hats off to the Liverpool Echo btw for their interest in the story. That's what local journalism is all about.

Investigative journalism is not what their readers want. Mindless kopite clickbait propaganda is received far more appreciatively by the hordes of Mordor. Why hold the FA to account like a good journalist when you can keep peddling that Liverpool have der best front three in der world despite not one of them winning anything with them.

 

[Kaiser Soysauce]

Rules of the Football Association: E CONDUCT-GENERAL BEHAVIOUR

3 (1)

"A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour."

Firmino - bang to rights. Just a question whether he receives a charge and longer ban on his racism.

Holgate - bang to rights. Did he not push someone over advertising boards, potentially injuring a player purposely? I'm not condoning alleged racial comments, just playing devils advocate. The whole scenario was in breach of Rules of the Football Association: E CONDUCT-GENERAL BEHAVIOUR 3 (1).

 

[evertonarntwe]

32 days it took the FA in the Suarez-Evra saga to come to a decision: received allegation on Oct 15th, charge made on Nov 16th.

40 days and counting now since Jan 5th when the Holgate-Firmino story began.

Hats off to the Liverpool Echo btw for their interest in the story. That's what local journalism is all about.

But wasn't suarez seen on camera saying negerito or whatever it was several times, ie they have hard factual evidence, in this case isn't it just Holgates word vs firminos? in which case of course it's going to take longer

 

[davek]

What really annoys me from an Evertonian point of view is that there is no tame journalist asking at every Everton press conference what the progress is, just so Big Sam can say that there is no progress from the FA. It needs to be kept in the open and not allowed to be hidden away like it has.

They dont ask also because the press conferences are stage managed and the club dont want to upset Liverpool. There, I've said it: EFC hiding away from the issue because they wont or cant stand up to that shower and annoy them.