Greek Financial Crisis

[davek]

So let me get this straight:

EU proposed €9bn of cuts in return for more loans so Tsipras asked the people if this was ok: the people (60% of them) said no. He then said this "no" vote would give them a position of greater influence to bargain a better deal.

Now Tsipras has made public this 'better deal': €13bn of cuts, €4bn more than the EU suggested, and yes these cuts will adversely affect normal people's pensions and tax payments.

What do the Greek people make of this, I wonder?

Politicians in breaking promises shock etc

But this goes beyond breaking promises. All hail democracy indeed.

It'd be €13 billion if the draft agreement is signed because the deal is over a longer period than the €8 billion was for.

All told: the Greek people stated categorically that they want to remain in the eurozone: that's the remit given the government from that referendum (most NO supporters plus all Yes supporters wanted that). They've apparently come up with a deal that is better than the one they were presented with last time by the Euro Group, which was for the reform package - pretty much as it is now - but no commitment to debt write off or €56 billion extra funding they want to kick start the economy, which it appears now they are prepared to accept (Syriza would have signed up for those reforms if they Euro Group would have gone that extra distance prior to the referendum to write off and fund).

It's a compromise deal that the Greeks will accept. What's happened is that the IMF last week pushed the reset button on this crisis and changed the terms of any deal, in favour of the Greeks I would argue, though no doubt there will be an almighty push in the media to declare this a climb down by Syriza.

IMO they should have exited and took control of the banks and major industries. But they (Syriza), as they have always stated, will bow to the wishes of the Greeks...and they want the Euro.

 

[davmaher]

One potential comlpication in all of this is that, from what I've read, all Euro-zone members will have to vote on the new bail out package at a meeting tomorrow. Each of them has a veto, so it will only take a no from one of them to scupper the whole deal. There a a lot of the smaller Euro-zone members who may refuse to go along with a further bail out. Also, Merkel will have to get the OK from the Bundestag, again via a vote. There is a huge amount of hostility in Germany to any further bail out for Greece and Merkel may struggle to get it through parliament.

 

[davek]

https://www.byline.com/column/11/article/155

Excellent piece. Sums it up as far as I'm concerned.

 

[The Esk]

Even if there is agreement tomorrow, the biggest problem is going to be the Greek banking system. The economy cannot function at any level with the current capital controls, yet the moment those capital controls are lifted, anyone who has not moved their money out of Greek banks will be doing so very quickly.

Emergency liquidity support previously provided by ECB will not be sufficient to keep the banks solvent in my opinion. A non functioning banking system and further austerity - how does the Greek economy recover and grow in these circumstances?

Answer - it can't.

 

[marnie]

Even if there is agreement tomorrow, the biggest problem is going to be the Greek banking system. The economy cannot function at any level with the current capital controls, yet the moment those capital controls are lifted, anyone who has not moved their money out of Greek banks will be doing so very quickly.

Emergency liquidity support previously provided by ECB will not be sufficient to keep the banks solvent in my opinion. A non functioning banking system and further austerity - how does the Greek economy recover and grow in these circumstances?

Answer - it can't.

Money under mattresses again........... You are right.......... they will pull everything out of the banks. I stated earlier in this thread...... I moved my money out early and have less than 30 euro in my 2 Greek accounts.My money is now in UK and Cyprus (holiday money in the latter) I think the people here know............ that if it doesn't happen tomorrow.......... in the near future the exit is coming further down the line.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Money under mattresses again........... You are right.......... they will pull everything out of the banks. I stated earlier in this thread...... I moved my money out early and have less than 30 euro in my 2 Greek accounts.My money is now in UK and Cyprus (holiday money in the latter) I think the people here know............ that if it doesn't happen tomorrow.......... in the near future the exit is coming further down the line.

Good one, my mum did the same a few weeks ago...

Shame what's happened/happening to Greeks, but I can't help but feel it's not exactly unpredictable that it was going to happen.

 

[davek]

The new Greek finance minister, Tsakalotos, indicating that a debt swap will be part of the package if it goes through. Probably explains why Varoufakis gave the deal his blessing earlier.

 

[davek]

BBC:

A rift between the Greek private media and the government led by the left-wing Syriza party has escalated after a journalists' professional body put nine senior journalists from three channels - Mega, ANT1 and Skai TV - under investigation over their coverage of the 5 July Eurogroup bailout referendum, reports BBC Monitoring.

They are facing accusations of breaking the electoral law and of bias in favour of the 'Yes' campaign.

The public prosecutor has also announced an investigation over allegations of "spreading false information" and "attempting to alarm the public", after formal complaints from citizens, Monitoring says.

Syriza had cried foul over media coverage, which it said "offends any sense of elementary fairness and journalistic ethics" - despite the resounding win of the 'No' campaign.

Quite right too. They should be gaoled.

 

[Clint Planet]

The Guardian can always be relied on to, in Tebbitt's words 'protect the establishment', when they have decided a certain figure, movement or government are not to the liking of the ruling class. They hide behind their 'liberalism' to put out the same crap as the rest of the media. Always the tailenders they never really expose the dirty deals of the British state. Amongst the general dross of their own political and social beliefs, the odd one or two articles are 'hard hitting' but very few and and far between. No wonder the general public have such a low opinion of journalists in general.

Humbert Wolfe knew a thing or two about British hacks when writing in the 1920s and 1930s. A time of unprecedented economic, social and political unrest when the establishment was threatened with upheaval.

Though his works are little read today, the following epigram from The Uncelestial City continues to be widely known and quoted:

You cannot hope
to bribe or twist,
thank God! the
British journalist.
But, seeing what
the man will do
unbribed, there's
no occasion to.

The Guardian is no better or worse than the rest. It is the sanctimonious pomposity, like the defence of the BBC, that the Guardian is 'different' that is galling. They feed the same bull as the rest maybe with bigger words and longer articles than the tabloids.

You lot must be reading a different Grauniad to me. There have been plenty of pro-Syriza articles in it recently.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

Bit of a long drawn out ' crisis 'this, isnt it?

 

[roydo]

About 7 years now. Maybe longer. It is just every now and then, the crisis gets critical.

 

[bizzaro]

@davek

Me.

 

[AussieToffee]

If Greece accept this bailout it will only "AGAIN" delay the inevitable which will again make it even worse further down the track.

The reason Greece might accept is because they have no plan B. which is to have their own currency ready to go.

Everyone will continue to move their Euro's out of the country whilst the Government starts printing the drachma to be ready for the real thing next time.

If you think Europe is angry now, next time it will be war.

There's no ethics from either side in all of this. It's a joke.

They still know Greece will definitely exit the Euro and they will again deem the debt odious and then they'll deem any private assets sold off as being illegal and most probably start jailing politicians.

The crazy thing is it will be the NAZIS in power by this stage because it'll be total anarchy even worse than it was now with Syriza.

just dumb.

 

[roydo]

If Greece accept this bailout it will only "AGAIN" delay the inevitable which will again make it even worse further down the track.

The reason Greece might accept is because they have no plan B. which is to have their own currency ready to go.

Everyone will continue to move their Euro's out of the country whilst the Government starts printing the drachma to be ready for the real thing next time.

If you think Europe is angry now, next time it will be war.

There's no ethics from either side in all of this. It's a joke.

They still know Greece will still eventually exit the Euro and they will again deem the debt odious and then they'll deem any private assets sold off as being illegal.

just dumb.

This basically.

 

[hullefc]

Yanis Varoufakis ‘Germany has an interest in breaking us’