Greek Financial Crisis

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Few more years of Conservative govt and this is us

I'd agree......But it's happening NOW. Not on the scale it is in Greece, mind. Some idiots people think it's a price worth paying.

 

[davek]

Greek journos tell us No vote seems in front with 2 hrs till polls close. bbc.in/1M3DdtE@BBCNewshour

If I was counting them they'd have a landslide. I'd be burning the yes votes or stuffing them down the bog. Nothing short of what the Quisling rats who've voted that way deserve.

 

[Prevenger17]

Davek and his democratic sensibilities coming to the fore.

 

[manxtoffee]

You can not solve a solvency issue with a liquidity solution.

 

[Jib in lad]

John Adams (1735-1826)

There are two ways to conquer a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.

OXI....

 

[edge]

People like me and you?

If your next door neighbour has been blowing the credit card out of the water why should the entire street lose their houses and jobs?

The EU has seen the likes of Poland grow in economic size by a factor of 4!

The EU has imbalances just like those that exist between US States.

But to come out with that anti EU UKIP nonsense is utterly ridiculous.

Shameful post.

There's MILLIONS of people across the EU that are going to be affected due to what's gone on in Greece. The Greek government is holding a gun to all their heads

The Greeks haven't been blowing there credit cards, they were allowed in to a club using smoke and mirrors, both sides knew that, the Greeks then had to borrow and use the cash to meet the targets to be a member of the Euro, while there was a prospect of continual growth they may have pulled it off, as we know it did go that way.
The EU central bank, or Germany in reality then imposed restrictions on there borrowing, the worse their ratings go the higher the interest to pay back, the more Germany makes on the loan, while they hold a gun to the Greek heads, is it any wonder they react i know your the king of copy on paste on here so have a read of this it may help you understand there feelings https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/27/greece-spain-helped-germany-recover&ei=ZEGZVdCtF8ypsgH3loqwBQ&usg=AFQjCNGBTJFd0jo2ANtoPXM8sMJlzuqKXga.

The UK helped Eire out with far lower interest rates , unlike the EU allowing them some space to get back on track.
Poland have had large structural grants from the EU so its not surprising its economy is doing well can it sustain it when the grants run out? i suggest it will follow the pattern most others have followed and not being able to keep it up once the EU expands again into cheaper labor markets , more than likely Turkey seeing as Russia is blocking the way east.
As for jobs they need us far more than we need them your point about service jobs , how many are servicing UK clients, or people who bank and deal here because its a safe and stable country and has been attractive for that reason for century's not just since the membership of the EU, why would that change and even if it did who is to say others wouldn't fill the void as it would be a less restricted market not tied to one that is shrinking in world terms like the EU.
Take fracking as an instance if we got the gas out unlike the USA we cant stimulate are growth. with cheap energy it has to be sold onto the open market within the EU , it could be mined here with all the risks but the french /Germans ect could walk off with it just as cheap as we the country that has the resource.
We put far more in than we take out so if we used that money we could either boost are economy or pay down debt, either way would create jobs and wealth in the UK.
There are some many instance of the EU coming down on the side of the powerful it would take to much space, here is one instance
The last EU grant to Liverpool was in part siphoned off to Northern Ireland and Scotland by this government,
Liverpool tried to claim it back it had been awarded to its poorer districts, the others could have applied for the same grants if them met the criteria they didn't, well the EU the very body that had given the grant to this underprivileged area then says through there courts its OK for the government to use otherwise, they always come down with the big guy when it comes to it.
As for being democratic, ask the Irish
If you find it shameful i don't fall for the wiki/ media view of the world , fine its good to have different stand points if that makes me the forum Nigel,fine i can live with it.
I find it shameful that you have no empathy with common people having there future ruined by greed and German/ EU political games to further there own agenda.The common market was helped in its formation by German individualist that had been working since 1940 to have a European market dominated by themselves as a counter to the USA , it looks like they might finally get there way.

 

[davek]

Fingers crossed lads.

 

[bizzaro]

The Greeks haven't been blowing there credit cards, they were allowed in to a club using smoke and mirrors, both sides knew that, the Greeks then had to borrow and use the cash to meet the targets to be a member of the Euro, while there was a prospect of continual growth they may have pulled it off, as we know it did go that way.
The EU central bank, or Germany in reality then imposed restrictions on there borrowing, the worse their ratings go the higher the interest to pay back, the more Germany makes on the loan, while they hold a gun to the Greek heads, is it any wonder they react i know your the king of copy on paste on here so have a read of this it may help you understand there feelings https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/27/greece-spain-helped-germany-recover&ei=ZEGZVdCtF8ypsgH3loqwBQ&usg=AFQjCNGBTJFd0jo2ANtoPXM8sMJlzuqKXga.

The UK helped Eire out with far lower interest rates , unlike the EU allowing them some space to get back on track.
Poland have had large structural grants from the EU so its not surprising its economy is doing well can it sustain it when the grants run out? i suggest it will follow the pattern most others have followed and not being able to keep it up once the EU expands again into cheaper labor markets , more than likely Turkey seeing as Russia is blocking the way east.
As for jobs they need us far more than we need them your point about service jobs , how many are servicing UK clients, or people who bank and deal here because its a safe and stable country and has been attractive for that reason for century's not just since the membership of the EU, why would that change and even if it did who is to say others wouldn't fill the void as it would be a less restricted market not tied to one that is shrinking in world terms like the EU.
Take fracking as an instance if we got the gas out unlike the USA we cant stimulate are growth. with cheap energy it has to be sold onto the open market within the EU , it could be mined here with all the risks but the french /Germans ect could walk off with it just as cheap as we the country that has the resource.
We put far more in than we take out so if we used that money we could either boost are economy or pay down debt, either way would create jobs and wealth in the UK.
There are some many instance of the EU coming down on the side of the powerful it would take to much space, here is one instance
The last EU grant to Liverpool was in part siphoned off to Northern Ireland and Scotland by this government,
Liverpool tried to claim it back it had been awarded to its poorer districts, the others could have applied for the same grants if them met the criteria they didn't, well the EU the very body that had given the grant to this underprivileged area then says through there courts its OK for the government to use otherwise, they always come down with the big guy when it comes to it.
As for being democratic, ask the Irish
If you find it shameful i don't fall for the wiki/ media view of the world , fine its good to have different stand points if that makes me the forum Nigel,fine i can live with it.
I find it shameful that you have no empathy with common people having there future ruined by greed and German/ EU political games to further there own agenda.The common market was helped in its formation by German individualist that had been working since 1940 to have a European market dominated by themselves as a counter to the USA , it looks like they might finally get there way.

Greece was allowed in using 'smoke and mirrors' WHAT???

It was the other why around. Go back and read the original opinion on Greece's admittance to the European Community in 1975

The commission advised against their admittance !

Such utter drivel people are coming out with in this thread. Absolute nonsense.




http://www.politico.eu/article/why-is-greece-in-the-eu-grexit/

Why on earth is Greece in the EU?
Reverence for the ancient Greeks led to the modern Greek crisis.

Europe is a Greek word. After Greece applied to join the European Community in 1975, Konstantinos Karamanlis, the country’s prime minister, often emphasized this point to his European counterparts.

The implication was clear: Greece, the font of Europe’s civilization, naturally belonged in the European club. As Karamanlis later put it, “the Greek spirit contributed the idea of Freedom, Truth and Beauty” to European culture.

Some had their doubts about whether Greece belonged in the European club, however. The European Commission, in issuing its opinion on Greece’s membership bid, warned that the Greek economy had a weak industrial base, which would limit its capacity to “combine homogeneously” with other member states. German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt worried about Greece’s problematic public administration, and its inability to collect taxes from its wealthiest citizens.

European leaders ultimately found Karamanlis’ argument about Greece’s cultural import persuasive, and it was one reason they set aside their concerns and admitted Greece in 1981. As former French president Valéry Giscard d’Estaing later put it in his memoir, Greece is the “mother of all democracies,” and therefore could not be excluded.

Two decades later, when Greece joined the euro, further cementing its place in the European project, it seemed only appropriate that the Greek two-euro coin would depict Europa, the beautiful maiden of Greek mythology who shares the continent’s name.

Today, Europa’s place on the coin is in peril as Greece remains dangerously close to a default that could lead to a euro exit. Those considerable problems Europe once overlooked seem to have come back to haunt it. Even Giscard seems to have had a change of heart.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_the_European_Union
(The Council has only once rejected the Commission's opinion when the latter advised against opening negotiations with Greece).[3]

http://www.cvce.eu/obj/a_success_fo...-en-19074d97-efda-45e1-b956-931833bb89c7.html

During their meeting on Monday, the Foreign Ministers of the Nine decided that negotiations for Greece’s accession to the Common Market would be opened as soon as possible. They rejected any political precondition as well as any idea of a ‘probationary period’, thus contradicting the opinion of the Commission, which had wanted to delay Greece’s entry until that country’s economy was better able to cope with all the consequences of entry. As always, the negotiations that are to be opened with Greece will be fairly lengthy. Nonetheless, the Nine do not want them to be extended unnecessarily.

 

[bizzaro]

The Greeks haven't been blowing there credit cards, they were allowed in to a club using smoke and mirrors, both sides knew that, the Greeks then had to borrow and use the cash to meet the targets to be a member of the Euro, while there was a prospect of continual growth they may have pulled it off, as we know it did go that way.
The EU central bank, or Germany in reality then imposed restrictions on there borrowing, the worse their ratings go the higher the interest to pay back, the more Germany makes on the loan, while they hold a gun to the Greek heads, is it any wonder they react i know your the king of copy on paste on here so have a read of this it may help you understand there feelings https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/27/greece-spain-helped-germany-recover&ei=ZEGZVdCtF8ypsgH3loqwBQ&usg=AFQjCNGBTJFd0jo2ANtoPXM8sMJlzuqKXga.

The UK helped Eire out with far lower interest rates , unlike the EU allowing them some space to get back on track.
Poland have had large structural grants from the EU so its not surprising its economy is doing well can it sustain it when the grants run out? i suggest it will follow the pattern most others have followed and not being able to keep it up once the EU expands again into cheaper labor markets , more than likely Turkey seeing as Russia is blocking the way east.
As for jobs they need us far more than we need them your point about service jobs , how many are servicing UK clients, or people who bank and deal here because its a safe and stable country and has been attractive for that reason for century's not just since the membership of the EU, why would that change and even if it did who is to say others wouldn't fill the void as it would be a less restricted market not tied to one that is shrinking in world terms like the EU.
Take fracking as an instance if we got the gas out unlike the USA we cant stimulate are growth. with cheap energy it has to be sold onto the open market within the EU , it could be mined here with all the risks but the french /Germans ect could walk off with it just as cheap as we the country that has the resource.
We put far more in than we take out so if we used that money we could either boost are economy or pay down debt, either way would create jobs and wealth in the UK.
There are some many instance of the EU coming down on the side of the powerful it would take to much space, here is one instance
The last EU grant to Liverpool was in part siphoned off to Northern Ireland and Scotland by this government,
Liverpool tried to claim it back it had been awarded to its poorer districts, the others could have applied for the same grants if them met the criteria they didn't, well the EU the very body that had given the grant to this underprivileged area then says through there courts its OK for the government to use otherwise, they always come down with the big guy when it comes to it.
As for being democratic, ask the Irish
If you find it shameful i don't fall for the wiki/ media view of the world , fine its good to have different stand points if that makes me the forum Nigel,fine i can live with it.
I find it shameful that you have no empathy with common people having there future ruined by greed and German/ EU political games to further there own agenda.The common market was helped in its formation by German individualist that had been working since 1940 to have a European market dominated by themselves as a counter to the USA , it looks like they might finally get there way.

As for Poland.

They're an economic powerhouse within Europe now. Along the same lines as Germany.

Its utter nonsense to suggest Poland can't maintain it. They were one of the only countries not to go into recession in 2009-2014 in Europe as a result.

 

[bizzaro]

The Greeks haven't been blowing there credit cards, they were allowed in to a club using smoke and mirrors, both sides knew that, the Greeks then had to borrow and use the cash to meet the targets to be a member of the Euro, while there was a prospect of continual growth they may have pulled it off, as we know it did go that way.
The EU central bank, or Germany in reality then imposed restrictions on there borrowing, the worse their ratings go the higher the interest to pay back, the more Germany makes on the loan, while they hold a gun to the Greek heads, is it any wonder they react i know your the king of copy on paste on here so have a read of this it may help you understand there feelings https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/27/greece-spain-helped-germany-recover&ei=ZEGZVdCtF8ypsgH3loqwBQ&usg=AFQjCNGBTJFd0jo2ANtoPXM8sMJlzuqKXga.

The UK helped Eire out with far lower interest rates , unlike the EU allowing them some space to get back on track.
Poland have had large structural grants from the EU so its not surprising its economy is doing well can it sustain it when the grants run out? i suggest it will follow the pattern most others have followed and not being able to keep it up once the EU expands again into cheaper labor markets , more than likely Turkey seeing as Russia is blocking the way east.
As for jobs they need us far more than we need them your point about service jobs , how many are servicing UK clients, or people who bank and deal here because its a safe and stable country and has been attractive for that reason for century's not just since the membership of the EU, why would that change and even if it did who is to say others wouldn't fill the void as it would be a less restricted market not tied to one that is shrinking in world terms like the EU.
Take fracking as an instance if we got the gas out unlike the USA we cant stimulate are growth. with cheap energy it has to be sold onto the open market within the EU , it could be mined here with all the risks but the french /Germans ect could walk off with it just as cheap as we the country that has the resource.
We put far more in than we take out so if we used that money we could either boost are economy or pay down debt, either way would create jobs and wealth in the UK.
There are some many instance of the EU coming down on the side of the powerful it would take to much space, here is one instance
The last EU grant to Liverpool was in part siphoned off to Northern Ireland and Scotland by this government,
Liverpool tried to claim it back it had been awarded to its poorer districts, the others could have applied for the same grants if them met the criteria they didn't, well the EU the very body that had given the grant to this underprivileged area then says through there courts its OK for the government to use otherwise, they always come down with the big guy when it comes to it.
As for being democratic, ask the Irish
If you find it shameful i don't fall for the wiki/ media view of the world , fine its good to have different stand points if that makes me the forum Nigel,fine i can live with it.
I find it shameful that you have no empathy with common people having there future ruined by greed and German/ EU political games to further there own agenda.The common market was helped in its formation by German individualist that had been working since 1940 to have a European market dominated by themselves as a counter to the USA , it looks like they might finally get there way.

AS for not having empathy with common people. Thats BS as well.

I've got more empathy than you have. Its all about jobs and ensuring the common and otherwise people have jobs.

Without jobs they're not empowered. Infact they're totally disempowered.

Its your ultra-socialist nonsense I can't be doing with.

 

[Prevenger17]

The Greeks haven't been blowing there credit cards, they were allowed in to a club using smoke and mirrors, both sides knew that, the Greeks then had to borrow and use the cash to meet the targets to be a member of the Euro, while there was a prospect of continual growth they may have pulled it off, as we know it did go that way.
The EU central bank, or Germany in reality then imposed restrictions on there borrowing, the worse their ratings go the higher the interest to pay back, the more Germany makes on the loan, while they hold a gun to the Greek heads, is it any wonder they react i know your the king of copy on paste on here so have a read of this it may help you understand there feelings https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/27/greece-spain-helped-germany-recover&ei=ZEGZVdCtF8ypsgH3loqwBQ&usg=AFQjCNGBTJFd0jo2ANtoPXM8sMJlzuqKXga.

The UK helped Eire out with far lower interest rates , unlike the EU allowing them some space to get back on track.
Poland have had large structural grants from the EU so its not surprising its economy is doing well can it sustain it when the grants run out? i suggest it will follow the pattern most others have followed and not being able to keep it up once the EU expands again into cheaper labor markets , more than likely Turkey seeing as Russia is blocking the way east.
As for jobs they need us far more than we need them your point about service jobs , how many are servicing UK clients, or people who bank and deal here because its a safe and stable country and has been attractive for that reason for century's not just since the membership of the EU, why would that change and even if it did who is to say others wouldn't fill the void as it would be a less restricted market not tied to one that is shrinking in world terms like the EU.
Take fracking as an instance if we got the gas out unlike the USA we cant stimulate are growth. with cheap energy it has to be sold onto the open market within the EU , it could be mined here with all the risks but the french /Germans ect could walk off with it just as cheap as we the country that has the resource.
We put far more in than we take out so if we used that money we could either boost are economy or pay down debt, either way would create jobs and wealth in the UK.
There are some many instance of the EU coming down on the side of the powerful it would take to much space, here is one instance
The last EU grant to Liverpool was in part siphoned off to Northern Ireland and Scotland by this government,
Liverpool tried to claim it back it had been awarded to its poorer districts, the others could have applied for the same grants if them met the criteria they didn't, well the EU the very body that had given the grant to this underprivileged area then says through there courts its OK for the government to use otherwise, they always come down with the big guy when it comes to it.
As for being democratic, ask the Irish
If you find it shameful i don't fall for the wiki/ media view of the world , fine its good to have different stand points if that makes me the forum Nigel,fine i can live with it.
I find it shameful that you have no empathy with common people having there future ruined by greed and German/ EU political games to further there own agenda.The common market was helped in its formation by German individualist that had been working since 1940 to have a European market dominated by themselves as a counter to the USA , it looks like they might finally get there way.

I didn't read a bit of that, but liked it just for it's sheer size.

 

[The Esk]

Its all about jobs and ensuring the common and otherwise people have jobs.

Without jobs they're not empowered. Infact they're totally disempowered.

Doesn't this principle apply to the Greeks as well though?

ps the idea that James Angelos is a credible source on the Greek entry into the European Community is unusual to say the least...

 

[davek]

Post vote polling (I know!) so far:

MEGA/GPO: Yes 46.5-50.5 No 49.5-53.5
Metron Analysis: Yes 46, No 49
AMarc: Yes 45.5-50.5, No 49.5-54.5
Star MRB: Yes 46-51, No 49-54

Hopefully they haven't got it arse about tit again and they're reflecting reality.

 

[hktoffee]

No!?

Oh no I got a lot of HSBC.

 

[roydo]

Post vote polling (I know!) so far:

MEGA/GPO: Yes 46.5-50.5 No 49.5-53.5
Metron Analysis: Yes 46, No 49
AMarc: Yes 45.5-50.5, No 49.5-54.5
Star MRB: Yes 46-51, No 49-54

Hopefully they haven't got it arse about tit again and they're reflecting reality.

They will just ignore it mate. You know it. In their own special "democratic" kind of way though.