Greek Financial Crisis

[magicjuan]

I don't even know where I'd fall on the 'political compass'. I'm more right wing on economics, but on social issues I think (despite what you may think) that I'm pretty left leaning.

I think authoritarian vs libertarian is more telling of person.

I consider myself not far from Chomsky's description of a libertarian anarchist who gives a sh1t about others

 

[bizzaro]

They need to leave the Euro and EU. Then I hope they recover with their own currency.

It might show the other countries that belong to the 'PIGS' nickname (Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Spain) that they too can leave and recover and hopefully prosper.

Did anyone watch question time about this issue. It seems many more people are becoming anti EU. The left leaning Guardian journalist even said he will be voting to leave the EU. I'm hoping many left leaning people argue for us to withdraw from the EU because I don't think being anti EU is right wing or left wing, yet it's always portrayed as right wing.

Then your advocating the UK losing millions of jobs.

It's that simple.

It's not about the UK being independent or not.

The UK is part of a common market. This means trading within it is cheaper and therefore jobs have been created as a result.

I know thousands of firms that will be thinking twice about investing in the UK if we leave.

Since we will be even more susceptible to currency spikes.

This will disproportionately impact the north west (Liverpool and other local areas) that have significant manufacturing and service sectors that supply the EU.

It's people coming out with rubbish like you that will see people unemployed here.

What we want is the EU to be more efficient. To relocate some power back to UK parliament such as on immigration.

That is not the same as wanting to leave the EU !!!!

 

[formerly manx toffee]

Remember Portugal in 2004. We all thought Greece would get kicked out early. They ended up winning.

Mark my words.

 

[bizzaro]

Hello Nigel.

Ireland ain't leaving the Euro or the EU anytime soon, Doubt if Spain or Portugal are either btw. You'd better get used to it.

Well done on getting the Left in Britain to fall for your anti-European agenda though. Fair play like. No doubt you have the cigar and slippers out at this point while you enjoy watching the meltdown in Greece.

Totally.

Fuming reading some of the tripe on here.

Clueless people will literally talk themselves out of jobs.

 

[magicjuan]

How is it undemocratic?

You vote for MEPs directly

The prime minister who you vote for votes on your behalf for the election of commissioners. Along with other member state governments.

I don't see this 'undemocratic union' at all.

Then you don't understand the EU.

The process may give the illusion of democracy, though the participation figures dont lend themselves to 'democratic representation'.

Once the formalities are out the way, everything becomes an illusion or sleight of hand, to promote and support a corporate agenda.

This is all before you look into the treaties etc. The idea of an 'economic union' versus ' a trading group' is the lie on which the foundations of the EU are built.

It is a long process, using only likeminded people within its systems, to further the ideals. I am old enough to have seen the changes and deception, the process is to wait for duffers like me to either give up protesting or die off, (those behind know no different so are more tolerant of their status quo), unfortunately I have no intention to do either for the foreseeable

 

[magicjuan]

People like me and you?

If your next door neighbour has been blowing the credit card out of the water why should the entire street lose their houses and jobs?

The EU has seen the likes of Poland grow in economic size by a factor of 4!

The EU has imbalances just like those that exist between US States.

But to come out with that anti EU UKIP nonsense is utterly ridiculous.

Shameful post.

There's MILLIONS of people across the EU that are going to be affected due to what's gone on in Greece. The Greek government is holding a gun to all their heads

Very rare I jump in to defend others, but to claim his post as shameful as an apalling call. Why is it exactly? Because it doesn't conform to your opinion? Ironic really what they call that type of thinking, don't you reckon?

 

[davek]

I hope the Greek Government have a plan to rifle through ballot boxes and tear up thousands of Yes votes. That's the way to deal with the cowards who want to put their own countrymen in hell for the next decade.

 

[bizzaro]

I hope the Greek Government have a plan to rifle through ballot boxes and tear up thousands of Yes votes. That's the way to deal with the cowards who want to put their own countrymen in hell for the next decade.

 

[bizzaro]

Very rare I jump in to defend others, but to claim his post as shameful as an apalling call. Why is it exactly? Because it doesn't conform to your opinion? Ironic really what they call that type of thinking, don't you reckon?

Because you're going to put millions of people onto the unemployment scrap heap.

But thats ok. Because anarchists like you don't care about ordinary people

 

[bizzaro]

Then you don't understand the EU.

The process may give the illusion of democracy, though the participation figures dont lend themselves to 'democratic representation'.

Once the formalities are out the way, everything becomes an illusion or sleight of hand, to promote and support a corporate agenda.

This is all before you look into the treaties etc. The idea of an 'economic union' versus ' a trading group' is the lie on which the foundations of the EU are built.

It is a long process, using only likeminded people within its systems, to further the ideals. I am old enough to have seen the changes and deception, the process is to wait for duffers like me to either give up protesting or die off, (those behind know no different so are more tolerant of their status quo), unfortunately I have no intention to do either for the foreseeable

I understand the EU better than you do.

 

[magicjuan]

Because you're going to put millions of people onto the unemployment scrap heap.

But thats ok. Because anarchists like you don't care about ordinary people

Thats such a fey cop out. Expected a bit more to be honest, on today especially, but suppose sophistry has its place in Greek history

 

[Librarian]

 

[magicjuan]

I understand the EU better than you do.

Do you? Do you really? Thats just great for you, just jump in the air, slap your thighs, give yourself a hearty handshake and revel in your achievement. You must be so, so proud of that level of self congratulatory egotistical self aggrandisement reached, I bet you can't control your own satisfaction levels, even to the point of claiming such a statement to be true.

I understand humility better than you. And opinion. So there.

 

[scratchnsurf]

Oh and another thing.

The EU gets blamed for everything but the single market and the EU has some of the most stringent consumer safety regulations in the world. Data protection for individuals. Etc etc

There's a lot of people who are making statements who don't know what they're talking about


Its like having Nigel Farage on the forum

Thank god for the EU then. Without doubt no one would have thought of those consumer safety regulations or that data protection legislation if they hadn't.

Then your advocating the UK losing millions of jobs.

It's that simple.

It's not about the UK being independent or not.

The UK is part of a common market. This means trading within it is cheaper and therefore jobs have been created as a result.

I know thousands of firms that will be thinking twice about investing in the UK if we leave.

Since we will be even more susceptible to currency spikes.

This will disproportionately impact the north west (Liverpool and other local areas) that have significant manufacturing and service sectors that supply the EU.

It's people coming out with rubbish like you that will see people unemployed here.

What we want is the EU to be more efficient. To relocate some power back to UK parliament such as on immigration.

That is not the same as wanting to leave the EU !!!!

If it's so simple, how come so many commentators have so little idea of exactly what is going to happen? Where might someone find out who these 'thousands' of companies are.

I understand the EU better than you do.

Aah, of course. Expertise.

 

[bizzaro]

Thank god for the EU then. Without doubt no one would have thought of those consumer safety regulations or that data protection legislation if they hadn't.

If it's so simple, how come so many commentators have so little idea of exactly what is going to happen? Where might someone find out who these 'thousands' of companies are.

Aah, of course. Expertise.

You wouldnt have one set of harmonised regulations across all 29 member states so no. So it makes trade more difficult.




Go on a local business directory.

http://www.fircroft.com/uk/automotive-jobs-north-west

Vauxhall at Ellesmere Port would be one.

Toyota at Deeside engine plant would be another.


Each automotive industry job DIRECTLY supports FOUR other supply chain and service job.

'The North West is the second largest region within the car manufacturing sector in the UK. Manufacturer's such as Vauxhall, Jaguar, Bentley and Land Rover have a strong presence and employ over 40,000 people.'

That is over 160,000 jobs right there at risk. I'd say its more like 400,000

Then there are chemicals jobs. Aerospace jobs. Finance service jobs. You literally could go through the book looking at all the industries and jobs that are going to put at risk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_West_England#Economy

Shows how manufacturing is important to the North West of the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Liverpool

Liverpool's service sector is 60% (2007 figures) of the cities economy.

If you asked many companies there most will be doing business with Europe.


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/financ...ving-the-eu-mean-for-the-uks-services-sector/

What would leaving the EU mean for the UK's services sector?

The UK’s service sector accounts for around 75 per cent of the country’s GDP. Britain’s 0.6 per cent growth in the second quarter of this year was largely thanks to this sector, which grew at its fastest rate in over two years.


Whether we like it or not, the UK will remain a services-based economy for a very long time. So it goes without saying that as David Cameron looks to negotiate a new settlement with Europe, getting a good deal for the UK’s services sector should feature highly.

First, UK services firms clearly use their comparative advantage to do business in Europe, boosting UK growth.

Secondly, if you buy into the “trade deficit” argument, it follows that while Germany and others would have an interest in maintaining open markets for selling manufactured goods in the UK, this logic does not apply for services, where they are net importers from the UK.

Therefore, the UK would be vulnerable to tit-for-tat trade games in its key economic sector. Perhaps Germany would be so keen to continue selling tariff-free cars that it would happily offer market access for UK services firms as part of a new deal. However, it’s far easier to remove tariffs for goods than it is to eliminate the myriad of barriers that exist to market access in services. Despite 40 years of negotiations, the Swiss still have patchy EU market access for services, while the EU and US have spent decades trying but failing to agree reciprocal market access for certain types of funds.

Critically, there’s only one off-the-peg model offering full market access for services outside the EU – the Norwegian model (EEA) – which for a range of other reasons would be a bad deal for the UK. The other potential models – the Swiss, Turkish and WTO options – would restrict access for the UK services industry absent separate agreements for specific sectors. This also spells problems for the City of London, currently used by a range of firms as an entry point to the single market, often via a so-called passport (involving a firm being allowed to sell its services across the EU as long as it’s authorised to do so in one member state).



Its like trying to separate yourself from your biggest customers.

Its ridiculous and is totally illogical.

The UKIP arguments only work for a very small number in the south east. Nigel Farage and his cronies.

They do not work for the North West of England or Wales whatsoever.

In any sector of the economy.


Just when the north west is starting to get its act together. Silly people with stupid ideas start talking rubbish about separating from the single market.

Unbelievable.