Current Affairs General US politics (ie, not POTUS related)

[TN Toffee]

Bit of a hypocrite for me. Self proclaimed socialist who is a career politician and owns 3 homes, is worth over $3mil, and is also on record saying something like “If you write a book, you can be a millionaire too.” Pretty capitalist thing to say imo. He has a different message than some but he’s still a politician.

Is $3M really all he’s worth? If so, he’s certainly not hoarding his wealth and probably isn’t a huge outlier for someone his age, even with his high profile job. He’s been in Congress for 30+ years, which when he first arrived paid ~$100k a year, and is now closer to $200k. Plus his book deals, speaking engagements, etc. that should be earning him money.

 

[carolinablue232]

Well aside from the fact that he probably gives a lot of money to charitable causes, let's have a look at this statement.

You said he's worth 3 million. That's comparatively a lot of money next to someone who is poor, but a drop in the ocean when you're talking about the vast swathes of corporate wealth he is discussing. Someone with a net worth of 3 million isn't going to be able to close the insane wealth gulf in the USA, they're not going to get the millions of people living in poverty and working low-pad jobs on a living wage, they're not going be able to prevent people forking out insane sums of money into their broken healthcare system just to stay alive.

These are all systemic issues that one man, even one with 3 houses, isn't going to be able to do anything about. People aren't poor because Bernie Sanders has 3 houses, they are poor because there are many facets of the US system that either don't help people achieve a good quality of living or actively suppress their opportunities to do so. WhY DoEsnT He PaY DeM is such a blatantly facile argument that I'm actually quite surprised you made it.

So if it can’t solve the macro level problems holistically, it’s not worth it? We shouldn’t consider say $1million of that wealth impactful to a subset of the population? What is the line for when a socialist should help others?

I’ll put it this way…he’s in the top 5% (ish) of wealth in the country while constantly criticizing the wealthy. That’s what doesn’t line up for me.

 

[carolinablue232]

Is $3M really all he’s worth? If so, he’s certainly not hoarding his wealth and probably isn’t a huge outlier for someone his age, even with his high profile job. He’s been in Congress for 30+ years, which when he first arrived paid ~$100k a year, and is now closer to $200k. Plus his book deals, speaking engagements, etc. that should be earning him money.

Idk about today. That’s just what I recall coming out when he was running a few years back.

 

[Prevenger17]

So if it can’t solve the macro level problems holistically, it’s not worth it? We shouldn’t consider say $1million of that wealth impactful to a subset of the population? What is the line for when a socialist should help others?

I’ll put it this way…he’s in the top 5% (ish) of wealth in the country while constantly criticizing the wealthy. That’s what doesn’t line up for me.

As I said, he probably pays his bit for good causes and charity. But when he is talking about wealth inequality, his 1 million can't even come close to addressing that. They estimate about 40 million people in the US live below the poverty line. When he gives, say, 10 million poor people 4 dollars each, what then?

Poverty isn't about how much money people have, it's their ability to sustainably generate money, be an economic contributor and have a decent quality of life. There's no quick patch for that, it's a problem that is inherent to the system in the US and means the vast majority of people who are born into poverty remain there for the rest of their life. Can you honestly not see how simplistic your argument is?

 

[carolinablue232]

As I said, he probably pays his bit for good causes and charity. But when he is talking about wealth inequality, his 1 million can't even come close to addressing that. They estimate about 40 million people in the US live below the poverty line. When he gives, say, 10 million poor people 4 dollars each, what then?

Poverty isn't about how much money people have, it's their ability to sustainably generate money, be an economic contributor and have a decent quality of life. There's no quick patch for that, it's a problem that is inherent to the system in the US and means the vast majority of people who are born into poverty remain there for the rest of their life. Can you honestly not see how simplistic your argument is?

So that hypothetical one million donation to a cause/non-profit that is about doing just that isn’t what top 2%ers should be doing. Instead they should all talk about how the top 1% should be helping people and then go but another vacation home. Got it.

I’m not suggesting it’s not a simple argument. Im suggesting the lines are arbitrary and that sanders himself is wealthy which is what he preaches against.

 

[Prevenger17]

I’m not suggesting it’s not a simple argument. Im suggesting the lines are arbitrary and that sanders himself is wealthy which is what he preaches against.

So let me get this completely right. Rich men can't campaign against poverty or wealth inequality because they themselves have money? So what is the maximum level of income someone should have before they are allowed to point out the gaping flaws in the US financial system that has left 40 million people below the poverty line? I'm not sure there's any politician poor enough to bring it up

 

[Prevenger17]

The only thing that Bernie Sanders is allowed talk about are things that affect politicians with a net worth of 3 million dollars. Incredible

 

[Prevenger17]

Is he allowed talk about poverty yet?

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/27/politics/bernie-sanders-sweatshirt-meme-fundraising-total-trnd/index.html

 

[carolinablue232]

So let me get this completely right. Rich men can't campaign against poverty or wealth inequality because they themselves have money? So what is the maximum level of income someone should have before they are allowed to point out the gaping flaws in the US financial system that has left 40 million people below the poverty line? I'm not sure there's any politician poor enough to bring it up

Practice what you preach. I’ll ask the other way. How much is too much? 5mil? 10mil?

 

[Prevenger17]

Practice what you preach. I’ll ask the other way. How much is too much? 5mil? 10mil?

Lol what? I'm saying it's perfectly fine for wealthy people to point out the flaws in the US financial system no matter what, it wouldn't make a difference if Sanders was worth 10 million or 20 million. Do you think Sanders should specifically stick to issues that affect elderly senators with a net worth of 3 million?

 

[carolinablue232]

Lol what? I'm saying it's perfectly fine for wealthy people to point out the flaws in the US financial system no matter what. Do you think Sanders should specifically stick to issues that affect elderly senators with a net worth of 3 million?

Yes, it’s perfectly fine for them to point them out. That’s the easy thing to do for anyone. What I’m saying it’s very very easy to point out the flaws without actually doing what you say you believe in. Why can’t politicians like Bernie lead by example instead of just words? Because it would be more uncomfortable for him to do so.

 

[Prevenger17]

What I’m saying it’s very very easy to point out the flaws without actually doing what you say you believe in. Why can’t politicians like Bernie lead by example instead of just words?

I just posted an article where he donated 1.8 million to a children's charity. That's almost two thirds of what he's worth according to you. Is that not an example? But addressing the root cause of poverty and lifting 40 million people out of it can't be solved by one man with 3 million dollars, it needs a fundamental structural change that can only be achieved politically, which is what he is campaigning for. If Bernie Sanders campaigned for things that specifically affected elderly senators with a net worth of 3 million dollars, he would be useless

 

[DualityNSNO]

A man's net worth isn't how much money he has btw.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Loving how the argument is he has 3 houses - it's not like he has 3 mansions, one is a middle class house, in Vermont; one is the obligatory Washington property, but it's not extravagant or anything - he just has to have one there because politics; the other's a 'kin cottage that him and his wife bought with her inheritance and his savings lol

 

[carolinablue232]

I seem to have dug myself a hole here for the sake of argument. I still don’t think if it came down to it Bernie or any other modern politician would sacrifice their own comfort/standard of high class living for the betterment of the people, but I will otherwise surrender the points being made.