Current Affairs General US politics (ie, not POTUS related)

[emir]

Btw, I live here. My family has been here since before the Civil War.

Nobody in Texas ran on this bill.

Abortion access in Texas isn't controversial. Most people here recognize abortion rights should exist with certain limitations. Texans also value their privacy.

This bill takes a giant crap on both of those.

Why would the GOP lawmakers make such a controversial law and end up jeopardizing their future prospects of being elected and pissing the electorate off by making this law?

 

[Hogwild]

Btw, I live here. My family has been here since before the Civil War.

Nobody in Texas ran on this bill.

Abortion access in Texas isn't controversial. Most people here recognize abortion rights should exist with certain limitations. Texans also value their privacy.

This bill takes a giant crap on both of those.

I live here too and my family has been here just as long. You are right that nobody ran on this. That said I don’t think it is unpopular as you might think it is, though some of that likely depends on where in our vast state you reside.

The subject is complicated. There are those I’m sure that have nobody’s best interest at heart and are control freaks. There are others who genuinely believe that to stop a beating heart is to take a life. I know that when we went to hear our child’s heartbeat and it was gone it certainly felt like a death.

I‘m not speaking in support of this particular legislation because frankly I have not read it. The idea of setting up a system designed for folks to narc on each other seems flawed.

That said preventing those heartbeats from being terminated is, in my view, something worth exploring.

I understand my opinion may be highly unpopular here, and my intent is not to convince any of you that your own views are wrong per se but rather to suggest that possibly not everyone that holds a view opposite your own is bad.

 

[Ruairi77]

The will of the people was to seat Merrick Garland on the SCOTUS.
had the will of the people not been ignored, this law would have been shot down last night.

 

[BlueTX]

Why would the GOP lawmakers make such a controversial law and end up jeopardizing their future prospects of being elected and pissing the electorate off by making this law?

I can only surmise they don't believe there will be personal repercussions. History says they may well be right.

I can only hope the business community stands up and/or voters wake the hell up.

Doing what I personally can on both fronts. And I'm finding several conservative allies in this. People who are offended by citizen vigilantes profiting off of frivolous lawsuits where normally they would have no standing to sue.

It's TERRIBLE law using traditional conservative principles.

 

[BlueTX]

I live here too and my family has been here just as long. You are right that nobody ran on this. That said I don’t think it is unpopular as you might think it is, though some of that likely depends on where in our vast state you reside.

The subject is complicated. There are those I’m sure that have nobody’s best interest at heart and are control freaks. There are others who genuinely believe that to stop a beating heart is to take a life. I know that when we went to hear our child’s heartbeat and it was gone it certainly felt like a death.

I‘m not speaking in support of this particular legislation because frankly I have not read it. The idea of setting up a system designed for folks to narc on each other seems flawed.

That said preventing those heartbeats from being terminated is, in my view, something worth exploring.

I understand my opinion may be highly unpopular here, and my intent is not to convince any of you that your own views are wrong per se but rather to suggest that possibly not everyone that holds a view opposite your own is bad.

As someone who has children, lost a child to miscarriage and had a girlfriend choose to have an abortion I understand well your POV.

If you, like I, would prefer the number of abortions performed to drop precipitously there are far better ways to achieve that end then via laws banning medically safe procedures.

Drug use hasn't declined due to bans. It's simply has the effect of driving it underground. Same will happen with abortion.

 

[emir]

I can only surmise they don't believe there will be personal repercussions. History says they may well be right.

I can only hope the business community stands up and/or voters wake the hell up.

Doing what I personally can on both fronts. And I'm finding several conservative allies in this. People who are offended by citizen vigilantes profiting off of frivolous lawsuits where normally they would have no standing to sue.

It's TERRIBLE law using traditional conservative principles.

Do you think birth control will be the next thing targeted by the state legislators? Now that abortion is done and dusted, they need a new issue to appeal to the conservatives.

 

[BlueTX]

Do you think birth control will be the next thing targeted by the state legislators? Now that abortion is done and dusted, they need a new issue to appeal to the conservatives.

Thankfully there are options so it's not necessarily done and dusted, even if at the moment legal abortion is effectively ended in Texas.

There is nothing conservative about this law. It is antithetical to conservative principles.

 

[BlueTX]

I live here too and my family has been here just as long. You are right that nobody ran on this. That said I don’t think it is unpopular as you might think it is, though some of that likely depends on where in our vast state you reside.

The subject is complicated. There are those I’m sure that have nobody’s best interest at heart and are control freaks. There are others who genuinely believe that to stop a beating heart is to take a life. I know that when we went to hear our child’s heartbeat and it was gone it certainly felt like a death.

I‘m not speaking in support of this particular legislation because frankly I have not read it. The idea of setting up a system designed for folks to narc on each other seems flawed.

That said preventing those heartbeats from being terminated is, in my view, something worth exploring.

I understand my opinion may be highly unpopular here, and my intent is not to convince any of you that your own views are wrong per se but rather to suggest that possibly not everyone that holds a view opposite your own is bad.

Apropos of very little... your user name is the name of my fave record shop where I live.

 

[Ruairi77]

Thankfully there are options so it's not necessarily done and dusted, even if at the moment legal abortion is effectively ended in Texas.

There is nothing conservative about this law. It is antithetical to conservative principles.

Totally, i can’t believe conservatives arent going nuts at the government co opting private citizens to spy on each other. It’s the stuff of Stazi East Germany.

 

[LinekersLegs]

I live here too and my family has been here just as long. You are right that nobody ran on this. That said I don’t think it is unpopular as you might think it is, though some of that likely depends on where in our vast state you reside.

The subject is complicated. There are those I’m sure that have nobody’s best interest at heart and are control freaks. There are others who genuinely believe that to stop a beating heart is to take a life. I know that when we went to hear our child’s heartbeat and it was gone it certainly felt like a death.

I‘m not speaking in support of this particular legislation because frankly I have not read it. The idea of setting up a system designed for folks to narc on each other seems flawed.

That said preventing those heartbeats from being terminated is, in my view, something worth exploring.

I understand my opinion may be highly unpopular here, and my intent is not to convince any of you that your own views are wrong per se but rather to suggest that possibly not everyone that holds a view opposite your own is bad.

I am very sad to hear of your loss, I have many family and friends who have experienced the pain and I grieve for you.

There are many who desperately want to have children who will also be hurt by this law as some of the examples in this thread demonstrate.


I believe there are ways of reducing abortion without such laws as this

 

[BlueTX]

Do you think birth control will be the next thing targeted by the state legislators? Now that abortion is done and dusted, they need a new issue to appeal to the conservatives.

Don't think I answered this directly and not sure I can. But it's perhaps worth noting that it has only been a couple of generations since married women in this state could have a bank account in their own name and only a single generation since a husband could successfully be charged with raping his wife.

Note NOTHING in the new abortion law addresses male responsibility. In fact, a man who rapes his daughter could theoretically sue and obtain compensation for her having an abortion.

 

[Hogwild]

I am very sad to hear of your loss, I have many family and friends who have experienced the pain and I grieve for you.

There are many who desperately want to have children who will also be hurt by this law as some of the examples in this thread demonstrate.


I believe there are ways of reducing abortion without such laws as this

I understand and have true sympathy for those folks. I also am torn that over 800,000 abortions occur each year here US, not Texas). While cases such as the ones you mention occur, there are many, many more with circumstances not nearly so dire and which nonetheless result in loss of life.

I agree that forcing people into dangerous situations is not at all an ideal situation. On the balance though I take issue with it simply being a woman’s right to choose. I recognize that when they make that choice it is one they have to live with. Unfortunately the aborted child is not afforded that same opportunity (and yes I know many will not agree with my classification of child, that is okay you can have your beliefs as equally I can have mine).

It is a complicated topic, perhaps ultimately the most complicated topic.

Again, I’m not saying this particular legislation is the answer. I do believe that we have to protect the well being of mothers, but when possible have to also consider the well being of the child. There may be times when due to the criminal nature of conception, health of the mother or other circumstances that abortion, no matter how regrettable is the best course of action. It should never though, in my opinion, be used as a form of birth control (and no, I don’t believe birth control is bad - quite the contrary)

I apologize if I offend anyone as that is not my intent. This conversation has a tendency to turn into one of people wanting to control women vs people with no regard for life. While those may be the two extremes and it is always easiest to overgeneralize things like this by pointing to the extremes my hope is that far, far more people than not lie in the conflicted middle and that someday those folks are able to arrive at compromise that both saves lives while not placing anyone into dangerous situations.

 

[Hogwild]

As someone who has children, lost a child to miscarriage and had a girlfriend choose to have an abortion I understand well your POV.

If you, like I, would prefer the number of abortions performed to drop precipitously there are far better ways to achieve that end then via laws banning medically safe procedures.

Drug use hasn't declined due to bans. It's simply has the effect of driving it underground. Same will happen with abortion.

Also, I am sorry for your loss and happy you also got to know the joy (and pain and aggravation ?) of parenthood. I am also fortunate to have two children.

 

[BlueTX]

Also, I am sorry for your loss and happy you also got to know the joy (and pain and aggravation ?) of parenthood. I am also fortunate to have two children.

My biggest pride and joy. Until, perhaps, I am blessed with grandchildren (my own sons are in their mid-20s).

At the same time, if this law was in place a decade or so ago, two of my younger friends would likely be without wives and parenting children solo.

It's a difficult and complex issue that far too often loses focus. We seem to forget most of us largely agree and we're instead pulled to the extremes so concensus is hard to find.

 

[Ruairi77]

I understand and have true sympathy for those folks. I also am torn that over 800,000 abortions occur each year here US, not Texas). While cases such as the ones you mention occur, there are many, many more with circumstances not nearly so dire and which nonetheless result in loss of life.

I agree that forcing people into dangerous situations is not at all an ideal situation. On the balance though I take issue with it simply being a woman’s right to choose. I recognize that when they make that choice it is one they have to live with. Unfortunately the aborted child is not afforded that same opportunity (and yes I know many will not agree with my classification of child, that is okay you can have your beliefs as equally I can have mine).

It is a complicated topic, perhaps ultimately the most complicated topic.

Again, I’m not saying this particular legislation is the answer. I do believe that we have to protect the well being of mothers, but when possible have to also consider the well being of the child. There may be times when due to the criminal nature of conception, health of the mother or other circumstances that abortion, no matter how regrettable is the best course of action. It should never though, in my opinion, be used as a form of birth control (and no, I don’t believe birth control is bad - quite the contrary)

I apologize if I offend anyone as that is not my intent. This conversation has a tendency to turn into one of people wanting to control women vs people with no regard for life. While those may be the two extremes and it is always easiest to overgeneralize things like this by pointing to the extremes my hope is that far, far more people than not lie in the conflicted middle and that someday those folks are able to arrive at compromise that both saves lives while not placing anyone into dangerous situations.

I think you can be pro life and be opposed to this new law.
in fact I find it hard to fathom how anyone could support it, and I’m not objecting to your anti abortion stance.