Gareth Barry

[Saint Domingo]

But when did Martinez ever say where Cleverley was going to play? Or that Barry was just going to be cover and not first choice?

All I recall him saying was that he recognised Gareth had been overplayed last season. Could just have easily meant that at the start of the season (when Barry had international breaks to rest in unlike the other squad memebers) he'd be first choice for league games/ squad for cups but that as soon as the busy period hit there would be more rotation.

It also appears that Barry got a shin injury during the game, bad enough that he couldn't walk yesterday, which could well account for him not looking top form for Bournemouth.
http://www.theguardian.com/football...iddlesbrough-capital-one-cup?CMP=share_btn_tw

To answer your first questions, he didn't. He didn't say Cleverley was a first choice replacement for Barry. I more in hope than expectation presumed he was. I had no doubt in my mind that Barry would still be first choice this season.

Martinez said that he'd been overplayed and had he fit options he would have rotated more. He's had options this season but where has the rotation been? He also had a fit Besic most of last season yet how often did we see Besic McCarthy? Not often.

If Barry did get a shin injury why didn't he come off? Did he start with a shin injury, because I can't remember us having control of the midfield at any point.

It's fine that you rate Barry. I don't. It just seems like with this argument about Howard there's always a load of good reasons why it's not his fault when perhaps the one obvious reason might be it just is his fault.


The way people go on about this team you've really got to scratch your head why we're in 9th and came bottom half last season. One of the world's best strikers upfront, an assist King out wide, England international at 10 assisting and scoring for fun. England and Argentine internationals at centrebacks and the league's best full back pairing both PFA team of the year members. Of course all shepherded by our faultless manager. Yet we are in ninth. The gaping holes in the keeper position and deep midfield are obvious but instead some people put in a load of creative thought into numerous other almost laughable reasons for our midtable form:

-The negative fans at Goodison
- A trend in the world game of more teams parking the bus
-Naismith Mcgeady Robles not offering enough competition...from the bench
-Youthful inexperienced team (not sure I buy either of those when you see Howard Baines Coleman Jagielka Barry McCarthy and Kone in the first choice 11)
- The impact of money on the rest of the league (which is magically impacting every other side positively apart from us)
- Top teams have money (always have, always will, least we're not forced to sell now)
- The Europa League (didn't affect Spurs or Liverpool last season or this one)

They are all just lazy at best but with some absolutely ridiculous excuses for our form over the last 18 months. Maybe when we finally start looking honestly at this team and manager we'll answer why we do not trouble the top 5 spots in the league.

Maybe just maybe Barry is not one of the best DMs in the prem. Perhaps Howard is also not a prem class keeper. Maybe Martinez is not a genius manager. Or I suppose it could be that Lukaku Barkley Deulofeu Stones Coleman and Baines aren't very good. I wonder which of these two scenarios it most likely is? Because I can say for certain that any neutral observer is not going to say there are any problems with Lukaku Stones Deulofeu Barkley Baines and Coleman. I can guarantee that we are not quality from 1-11 and with a great manager otherwise we wouldn't be where we are and where we were last season.

 

[Saint Domingo]

You made a presumption on Cleverley and his position... And Martinez lied?

Right.
Ok.

If all you're going to do is mis read quotes, take stuff out of context, then try and use it in an argument then you're offering nothing of any note to the discussion.

Read the posts, come back again with something sensible. I presumed Martinez bought Cleverley to use in Barry's position. I presumed this because he said he would have rotated Barry more if he had options. So no, Martinez did not lie because my assumption didn't borne out, he lied over his intention to rotate Barry because he has not done it despite numerous options being available.

 

[mkrudden]

To answer your first questions, he didn't. He didn't say Cleverley was a first choice replacement for Barry. I more in hope than expectation presumed he was. I had no doubt in my mind that Barry would still be first choice this season.

Martinez said that he'd been overplayed and had he fit options he would have rotated more. He's had options this season but where has the rotation been? He also had a fit Besic most of last season yet how often did we see Besic McCarthy? Not often.

If Barry did get a shin injury why didn't he come off? Did he start with a shin injury, because I can't remember us having control of the midfield at any point.

It's fine that you rate Barry. I don't. It just seems like with this argument about Howard there's always a load of good reasons why it's not his fault when perhaps the one obvious reason might be it just is his fault.


The way people go on about this team you've really got to scratch your head why we're in 9th and came bottom half last season. One of the world's best strikers upfront, an assist King out wide, England international at 10 assisting and scoring for fun. England and Argentine internationals at centrebacks and the league's best full back pairing both PFA team of the year members. Of course all shepherded by our faultless manager. Yet we are in ninth. The gaping holes in the keeper position and deep midfield are obvious but instead some people put in a load of creative thought into numerous other almost laughable reasons for our midtable form:

-The negative fans at Goodison
- A trend in the world game of more teams parking the bus
-Naismith Mcgeady Robles not offering enough competition...from the bench
-Youthful inexperienced team (not sure I buy either of those when you see Howard Baines Coleman Jagielka Barry McCarthy and Kone in the first choice 11)
- The impact of money on the rest of the league (which is magically impacting every other side positively apart from us)
- Top teams have money (always have, always will, least we're not forced to sell now)
- The Europa League (didn't affect Spurs or Liverpool last season or this one)

They are all just lazy at best but with some absolutely ridiculous excuses for our form over the last 18 months. Maybe when we finally start looking honestly at this team and manager we'll answer why we do not trouble the top 5 spots in the league.

Maybe just maybe Barry is not one of the best DMs in the prem. Perhaps Howard is also not a prem class keeper. Maybe Martinez is not a genius manager. Or I suppose it could be that Lukaku Barkley Deulofeu Stones Coleman and Baines aren't very good. I wonder which of these two scenarios it most likely is? Because I can say for certain that any neutral observer is not going to say there are any problems with Lukaku Stones Deulofeu Barkley Baines and Coleman. I can guarantee that we are not quality from 1-11 and with a great manager otherwise we wouldn't be where we are and where we were last season.

Or maybe...just maybe... Despite your essays... It's you who doesn't have all the answers? And we should leave the fully qualified, trophy winning, premier league manager to continue what seems to most to be a progressive building job at our beloved?

 

[Dithering Dougie]

To answer your first questions, he didn't. He didn't say Cleverley was a first choice replacement for Barry. I more in hope than expectation presumed he was. I had no doubt in my mind that Barry would still be first choice this season.

Martinez said that he'd been overplayed and had he fit options he would have rotated more. He's had options this season but where has the rotation been? He also had a fit Besic most of last season yet how often did we see Besic McCarthy? Not often.

If Barry did get a shin injury why didn't he come off? Did he start with a shin injury, because I can't remember us having control of the midfield at any point.

It's fine that you rate Barry. I don't. It just seems like with this argument about Howard there's always a load of good reasons why it's not his fault when perhaps the one obvious reason might be it just is his fault.


The way people go on about this team you've really got to scratch your head why we're in 9th and came bottom half last season. One of the world's best strikers upfront, an assist King out wide, England international at 10 assisting and scoring for fun. England and Argentine internationals at centrebacks and the league's best full back pairing both PFA team of the year members. Of course all shepherded by our faultless manager. Yet we are in ninth. The gaping holes in the keeper position and deep midfield are obvious but instead some people put in a load of creative thought into numerous other almost laughable reasons for our midtable form:

-The negative fans at Goodison
- A trend in the world game of more teams parking the bus
-Naismith Mcgeady Robles not offering enough competition...from the bench
-Youthful inexperienced team (not sure I buy either of those when you see Howard Baines Coleman Jagielka Barry McCarthy and Kone in the first choice 11)
- The impact of money on the rest of the league (which is magically impacting every other side positively apart from us)
- Top teams have money (always have, always will, least we're not forced to sell now)
- The Europa League (didn't affect Spurs or Liverpool last season or this one)

They are all just lazy at best but with some absolutely ridiculous excuses for our form over the last 18 months. Maybe when we finally start looking honestly at this team and manager we'll answer why we do not trouble the top 5 spots in the league.

Maybe just maybe Barry is not one of the best DMs in the prem. Perhaps Howard is also not a prem class keeper. Maybe Martinez is not a genius manager. Or I suppose it could be that Lukaku Barkley Deulofeu Stones Coleman and Baines aren't very good. I wonder which of these two scenarios it most likely is? Because I can say for certain that any neutral observer is not going to say there are any problems with Lukaku Stones Deulofeu Barkley Baines and Coleman. I can guarantee that we are not quality from 1-11 and with a great manager otherwise we wouldn't be where we are and where we were last season.

Yet with a manager you don't rate, and a team that consists of at least a third of its regular starters that you don't rate either you think we should be higher up the league and challenging for honours.

That's some proper mixed up logic you've got yourself.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Yet with a manager you don't rate, and a team that consists of at least a third of its regular starters that you don't rate either you think we should be higher up the league and challenging for honours.

That's some proper mixed up logic you've got yourself.

Not really it's quite simple. We are exactly where we deserve to be because we have an average manager the worst keeper in the league and a 35 year old well off the pace of the game partnering a player who can't pass forward. There's nothing wrong with the rest of the starting lineup which in my opinion has top 4 potential which is being squandered.

 

[LinekersLegs]

To answer your first questions, he didn't. He didn't say Cleverley was a first choice replacement for Barry. I more in hope than expectation presumed he was. I had no doubt in my mind that Barry would still be first choice this season.

Martinez said that he'd been overplayed and had he fit options he would have rotated more. He's had options this season but where has the rotation been? He also had a fit Besic most of last season yet how often did we see Besic McCarthy? Not often.

If Barry did get a shin injury why didn't he come off? Did he start with a shin injury, because I can't remember us having control of the midfield at any point.

It's fine that you rate Barry. I don't. It just seems like with this argument about Howard there's always a load of good reasons why it's not his fault when perhaps the one obvious reason might be it just is his fault.


The way people go on about this team you've really got to scratch your head why we're in 9th and came bottom half last season. One of the world's best strikers upfront, an assist King out wide, England international at 10 assisting and scoring for fun. England and Argentine internationals at centrebacks and the league's best full back pairing both PFA team of the year members. Of course all shepherded by our faultless manager. Yet we are in ninth. The gaping holes in the keeper position and deep midfield are obvious but instead some people put in a load of creative thought into numerous other almost laughable reasons for our midtable form:

-The negative fans at Goodison
- A trend in the world game of more teams parking the bus
-Naismith Mcgeady Robles not offering enough competition...from the bench
-Youthful inexperienced team (not sure I buy either of those when you see Howard Baines Coleman Jagielka Barry McCarthy and Kone in the first choice 11)
- The impact of money on the rest of the league (which is magically impacting every other side positively apart from us)
- Top teams have money (always have, always will, least we're not forced to sell now)
- The Europa League (didn't affect Spurs or Liverpool last season or this one)

They are all just lazy at best but with some absolutely ridiculous excuses for our form over the last 18 months. Maybe when we finally start looking honestly at this team and manager we'll answer why we do not trouble the top 5 spots in the league.

Maybe just maybe Barry is not one of the best DMs in the prem. Perhaps Howard is also not a prem class keeper. Maybe Martinez is not a genius manager. Or I suppose it could be that Lukaku Barkley Deulofeu Stones Coleman and Baines aren't very good. I wonder which of these two scenarios it most likely is? Because I can say for certain that any neutral observer is not going to say there are any problems with Lukaku Stones Deulofeu Barkley Baines and Coleman. I can guarantee that we are not quality from 1-11 and with a great manager otherwise we wouldn't be where we are and where we were last season.

If Martinez didn't say it then why did you claim he have lied?

He could have played the Besic/McCarthy partnership more last season but I can understand why he might not have thought they'd be good partners - they both seem to share similar strengths but also similar weaknesss. The one time they did play together I though they were poor although it would be interesting to see it again and see if it developed.

But why rotate Barry this season in the league whilst he has generally been playing well and has had the international breaks and cups to rest anyhow? I know you don't think he has been performing but tbh you seem to be in the minority - in every game he's played this season (apart from Bournemouth) he has a higher MOTM score than McCarthy and has usually been in the top 4 of the voting.

You claim Martinez has had options but
a) Besic hasn't been fit enough to make the bench for most of the league games (only numbers 2/3/4) and when he did come on game 5 he almost immediately broke down again.
b) Cleverley who been injured since the bad tackle in game 4
c) Gibson who, even if you believe has been fully fit, has had offield problems

I suppose Martinez could have dropped Barkley into midfield but even if you are convinved he would be good in the role, which I am not yet, who would you play as AM? Naismith? Osman has been on the bench quite a few times but has looked badly off the pace whenever he has got minutes.

Barry has been rested in all the cups, apart from when he had to come on at half time to shore up our midfield. He probably didn't come off as iirc the tackle he took a while to get up from was after McCarthy had already gone off and Martinez didn't want to further disturb that midfield if Barry felt he could soldier on. Probably a mistake but then the bench options weren't great either.

As for your other points regarding Howard, Martinez and the team in general think those are better addressed in the relevant threads although in respect to the former not quite sure why you think I rate Howard as I clearly stated in the previous post I don't.

 

[By god I'm blue]

Steady Eddie again tonight, did a lot of good things, very professional performance from him.

 

[Jadubsee]

Thought he was excellent again tonight.

 

[sageyefc]

Brilliant player

 

[SPOTTER]

Awesome.simply non replaceable.please stay fit.

 

[faddy the blue]

The name is Barry...... Gareth Barry.

Amazing how he made me believe he was past it last season but this season he's flourished like 007 does with age.

 

[Woolly Blue]

He was ace again tonight.

 

[4737carlin]

Del was MOTM but Barry was fantastic again, really big season so far for him, his experience really shows.

 

[Jags..class]

Do we have anyone in the team who could replace him in the future

 

[Abraders]

Hated him last year totally shutting me up this year.