Financial spending in England

[glorydaze]

In the FA cup we have gone out 9 of 11 times to premier teams under MOyes

Avg lge position last 10 yrs 7th. Previous 10, 14th.

 

[Allezfan]

In the FA cup we have gone out 9 of 11 times to premier teams under MOyes

Wigan, Birmingham etc might have been Pl but they're still inferior, especially at home.

 

[Brownie]

Thats all very well and good and does show what an uneven playing field he's been playing on.

However it doesn't take into account football games are won by ability (manager and player) not price tags or wage packets.

The money comparison is fair when building squads and signing players, and Moyes does a very good job, better than the vast majority of his peers and deserves the credit.

But once those players are signed and squads assembled, after the hardest part of his task is succesfully done, then he is less succesful in what he achieves considering the ability of those given squads.

Then he is just an ok manager doing an ok job. Not bad, not outstanding, just ok.

Overall, he's a good manager. But he shouldn't always be absolved of blame for his other failings elsewhere due to his financial successes.

I won't take seriously anyone who says "we can't compete with QPR, look at how much money they spent". I eill take seriously someone who says " we'll struggle to compete with Chelsea due to how good their squad is".

Good manager doing a good job. Not outstanding, but good. The achievements he's had with the players he's had are good.

 

[glorydaze]

Wigan, Birmingham etc might have been Pl but they're still inferior, especially at home.

By that argument why do we give grief when we lose away consistently to superior teams

 

[turner]

What this doesn't take into account is that due to turnover of managers a lot of managers go into a job and inherit another manager's players, and need money to get the squad they feel will reflect their desired style etc. Some never get the time to do this. Moyes has the advantage that all of the players in the squad have been signed by him and the off pitch set up is entirely organised by him. Some managers do not get this luxury, and make do with the players available to them. I think this longevity gives managers like moyes, wenger and ferguson an advantage that will offset some spending issues.

 

[Allezfan]

What this doesn't take into account is that due to turnover of managers a lot of managers go into a job and inherit another manager's players, and need money to get the squad they feel will reflect their desired style etc. Some never get the time to do this. Moyes has the advantage that all of the players in the squad have been signed by him and the off pitch set up is entirely organised by him. Some managers do not get this luxury, and make do with the players available to them. I think this longevity gives managers like moyes, wenger and ferguson an advantage that will offset some spending issues.

I agree. Dave's often said that Moyes is time rich if not resources rich and that makes up somewhat for it.

 

[Allezfan]

By that argument why do we give grief when we lose away consistently to superior teams

I've never done that so I can't tell you.

 

[chrismanduk]

What this doesn't take into account is that due to turnover of managers a lot of managers go into a job and inherit another manager's players, and need money to get the squad they feel will reflect their desired style etc. Some never get the time to do this. Moyes has the advantage that all of the players in the squad have been signed by him and the off pitch set up is entirely organised by him. Some managers do not get this luxury, and make do with the players available to them. I think this longevity gives managers like moyes, wenger and ferguson an advantage that will offset some spending issues.

So what you are saying is Blue Bill has done a good job cos he's given the manager longevity to negate the lack of money.

 

[Allezfan]

So what you are saying is Blue Bill has done a good job cos he's given the manager longevity to negate the lack of money.

I would say that. It's difficult to argue that kenwright, for all his other flaws, has created stability by giving a single talented manager a lot of control and a lot of time.

Admittedly those benfits have come at a cost, namely Moyes is massively overpayed and our reliance on his financial wizardy has meant he's free to bottle cup games, play dull hoofball and stagnate our kids without consequences wheeras our options would be better if we were financially better off. But a lot of chairmen would have sacked Moyes after his second yeare here and that probably wouldn't have gone well for us

 

[turner]

So what you are saying is Blue Bill has done a good job cos he's given the manager longevity to negate the lack of money.

er, no. What I am saying is that money is only part of the story. It works both ways though. I think Moyes has had enough longevity, he's got too comfortable and things have got too stale. What this clubs needs is a shake-up at all levels, to be honest, from top to bottom.

 

[Neiler]

I think people think their furious and genuinely feel change is the right thing but really i just think they are board, just my opinion like.

Its a car crash waiting to happen.

Anyway back on topic, pound for pound and that.

 

[Allezfan]

I think people think their furious and genuinely feel change is the right thing but really i just think they are board, just my opinion like.

Its a car crash waiting to happen.

I honestly don't understand how someone can watch the reading, liverpool and wigan cup games in three successive years and not be furious and want change. I was at two of those games and watch the third on telly and I'd honestly count those as three of the worst days of the last three years.

 

[Brennan]

I honestly don't understand how someone can watch the reading, liverpool and wigan cup games in three successive years and not be furious and want change. I was at two of those games and watch the third on telly and I'd honestly count those as three of the worst days of the last three years.

Because there is more to Everton than three cup games. The league is the bread and butter and without solid continued performance in that we'll be up s*** creek. The immediate emotional response of 'Moyes out' when things are going wrong is fine, but i don't see how anybody taking a look at the financial facts of the situation could be eager to get rid of him. Unless, as i said, your view is that winning a cup is the priority over financial survival.

 

[Neiler]

I honestly don't understand how someone can watch the reading, liverpool and wigan cup games in three successive years and not be furious and want change. I was at two of those games and watch the third on telly and I'd honestly count those as three of the worst days of the last three years.

You forgot Leeds mate!

No offence mate, but thats ridiculous to me, we have no divine right to win any game. Im not saying its acceptable im saying to jib of 10 years of development and consistency because we're leary over cup exits just doesnt make sense to me, everyone will exit the cup bar one.

I may have a different opinion if we were in a different situation, but anyone fooling themselves that anything has significantly changed since we were relegation fodder is fooling themselves. For that reason im in the Davey in camp.

I wont convince you mate, nor will i try and im spoiling the excellent topic you posted, but i genuinely believe people want change for change sake - a lot of the younger fans seduced by SSN IMHO who dont remember us being gash (no offence) and it will be a car crash.

Not that i think hes staying like.

Anyway back on topic, i always find interesting we have one of the highest cost bases and lowest transfer outlazy - we make and reward players, thats the model.

 

[Christiffa25]

Funny somebody should mention our cup defeats at the hands of lower teams. Since 2004/05 (the furthest back this site im looking at goes) the following teams have lost to the following lower league opposition in cups:

Tottenham: Leicester, Portsmouth, Grimsby, Burnley

Everton: Oldham, Reading, Brentford, Leeds

Aston Villa: Sheffield United, Millwall, Burnley, Doncaster, Leicester, QPR, Bradford

Arsenal: Blackburn, Blackburn, Burnley, Ipswich, Bradford

Chelsea: Barnsley, Charlton, Burnley,

Important to note that as well as losing a similar amount or more games to lower league opposition, all of the above teams outspend us.

Would seem Moyes doesn't fare too badly there either...

Post of the thread....

Some people are sooooo blinkered!