fan apathy in stadiums a concern

[BoysInBlue]

A singing section is not an ultra group where you have drum and a menu of songs, they are a lot different, I think you're confusing the two.The organisation involved is a case of the lads who like to group together in the concourses just get your tickets together in the same block. The organisation is just common sense and a compliment to fans who do that. Once in there there's zero organisation.

If you're referring to the lads on here who do that, well that's different. Good on them.

I'm referring to either something clubs officially organise or officially sanction. As long as the club has zero input, that's fine by me. That means it remains organic and not something anyone in power can take credit for.

Stuff like that Man Utd initiative is just cringeworthy. They're happy enough to be corporate when it involves making loads of money, but when it goes too far away from their roots, they can hardly start crying about it. They can't have everything.

 

[Del]

We should have a fancy dress section

 

[Del]

Judging by some of the clobber on show in Bullens Road at times, I think we already do.

What do you wear lid?

 

[bluemangroup]

What do you wear lid?

Your mar as a glove puppet. I'm bored of your mar jokes myself even.

 

[Del]

Your mar as a glove puppet.

That would only cover your arm

Would be a bit cold in the winter don't you think?

 

[bluemangroup]

That would only cover your arm

Would be a bit cold in the winter don't you think?

You are right. I haven't thought this through at all.

 

[Del]

You are right. I haven't thought this through at all.

Thought so

Get a grip hey

 

[stanleypark]

If you're referring to the lads on here who do that, well that's different. Good on them.

I'm referring to either something clubs officially organise or officially sanction. As long as the club has zero input, that's fine by me. That means it remains organic and not something anyone in power can take credit for.

Stuff like that Man Utd initiative is just cringeworthy. They're happy enough to be corporate when it involves making loads of money, but when it goes too far away from their roots, they can hardly start crying about it. They can't have everything.

If fans can organise it themselves then they do deserve more credit than if it's organised by the club. The reason why fans will then get their club to sanction it is because they don't want the stewards to kick them out for standing, or because they need space in the stadium to do it so they go to the club. If the club care about the support then they will respond. It's no coincidence that if you get 50 lads together the atmosphere will be more boisterous than if there were 50 business men together. What happens now is that they are merged together so naturally there is less spontaneity, less boisterousness, and less singing. It takes more from the match to get an atmosphere which is what happens now. So you need to get back to putting those 50 lads together then the atmosphere will naturally happen again in a more boisterous, noisy way with more songs. That is what a singing section is. People see the phrase 'singing section' and just get the completely wrong idea in their head and that is why a singing section won't take off at Everton, most of our fans don't get it.

 

[Jeff Jones]

Maybe some decent and clever new songs would help. We need some originality.

I can't go, but listening on television it's the same old stuff they were singing 40 years ago.

And it's...........we're by far the greatest team.....

Then there's 'One Tony Hibbert, there's only one..., and all the variations on that tune.

I'm bored with it and maybe most the crowd is bored with singing it.

 

[efcfanwirral]

The apathy is all down to money. The league as been split into three groups. The monied elite, the absolute cannon fodder, and the decent moneyless sides in the middle that include us and at different times Newcastle and Villa. There are very few 'even' games on paper in the league any more involving Everton. If one of the top teams turn up your default expectancy is to lose, on the rare occassions you beat them you get a good atmosphere but most of the time you don't so its pretty poor. Against the fodder sides you're expecting to win comfortably, if you do its merely the status quo, if you don't its intense frustration. The only way you get a good atmosphere in these games is if itslate in the seaosn and you're hunting a spot in the table, or if you've comeback from 2 or 3 down and then you only really enjoy the minutes after the comeback is complete.

There's too much predictability about every game - you get the odd exceptions but the final league table shows that they are just that, exceptions. Why get excited when we know before a premier league ball has been kicked that Everton have 0 chance of winning the competition we're supposed to be providing an atmosphere for? Once again the 'competition' has been destroyed by money.

Even some of the boss games we used ot have agianst the likes of O Neill's Villa or Newcastle have disappeared as they both joined the fodder group of the table as they went rubbish. Liverpool and Spurs meanwhile moved the other way into the monied group depriving us of good atmospheres against another two teams you would consider our peers. When you factor in the loss of traditional good premier league teams like Nottingham Forest, Leeds, Leicester, Coventry, Sheffield Wednesday you can see why there's a lot of games in the premier legaue now that just don't get the pulses racing due to the callibre of opposition. Burnely, Wigan, Hull, Palace, Norwich, West Brom, Wolves, Birmingham, Stoke, and a whole host of others just odn't generate any excitement when you see them coming to Goodison you just think 'lets put these away as quickly as possible and hope its not a banana skin'.

I was going to write a reply to this, but you've summed up what I was going to say. It's habit now following football, if I hasn't been bitten by the bug long ago I'd stop. Sometimes when I think too deeply about it I do think what's the point, there seems little logic or reason for us going to games anymore apart from habit and passion from a long gone era.

I read Kendall's book and going from where we were in 1983 to fa cup winners one season and then league champions the next is impossible now and forever more because that would actually interfere with the product if the big teams didn't win. For the money keeping us afloat to continue, teams like United have to be winning. Us and 86 other teams are also-rans, we just happen to be higher than most of them.

 

[Jeff Jones]

I was going to write a reply to this, but you've summed up what I was going to say. It's habit now following football, if I hasn't been bitten by the bug long ago I'd stop. Sometimes when I think too deeply about it I do think what's the point, there seems little logic or reason for us going to games anymore apart from habit and passion from a long gone era.

I read Kendall's book and going from where we were in 1983 to fa cup winners one season and then league champions the next is impossible now and forever more because that would actually interfere with the product if the big teams didn't win. For the money keeping us afloat to continue, teams like United have to be winning. Us and 86 other teams are also-rans, we just happen to be higher than most of them.

You paint a dismal picture. How are things in New Brighton?

 

[Huyton Layne]

Singing shouldn't have to be organised. It should just happen spontaneously. If it doesn't happen, it's not meant to be. This idea of seats being the reason for a ****e atmosphere is the biggest myth in football. I've seen some brilliant atmospheres at Goodison over the past few seasons. When we want to, we can sing, we can shout, we can scream, we can intimidate. That's what we do. We're not the Kop, with self-congratulatory, attention seeking banners and flags, up our own backsides.

We're Everton, our atmosphere comes naturally and at the right time, when it is most needed. We are Evertonians, not performing seals singing just for the sake of it.

Singing for the sake of it can lead to this

 

[Pabbers]

Blaming Martinez ????

 

[nigelcoyb]

Been on the wane since the 80s if truth be told, like it or not nutcases pissed up shouting abuse and scrapping are an integral part of the bear pit fervour. As bluejock says once you factor in the cost you end up with what todays match going fan is a mix of middle class professional types as likely to go to a dinner party as go to a game.

I used to be against american style cheerleading/organised singing but it will come because the telly money is dependent on full grounds and atmosphere.

The next generation won't have the fundamentalist fans who attend come what may and won't hear a word said against their club, fans just rip the piss out their own clubs these days it's a short step to telling their offspring "don't bother - take up sailing".

The short sightedness of the Prem/FA and the clubs is remarkable in not recognising this awaiting abyss.

 

[njligernj]

Set a horse on fire and have it run around the pitch during a game ... that'd get the crowd riled up.

Agree with all of the above but mostly the bit about ticket prices. If clubs and / or TV want to generate more of an atmosphere then it's in their hands. All it needs is something in the Sky money contract to say that a certain % of the clubs income should go towards keeping ticket prices reasonable. Make £20 the max price for Lower Gwladys and the whole atmosphere thing will look after itself. Agents and players will make this very unlikely to happen though.

Will the "middle class" who are ruining football refuse to pay less for their tickets?

It's not the ticket prices ... it's us.

People just aren't relying on football as the only entertainment break in their lives so it just doesn't mean as much as it used to in the "good ol' days." If it's a night game v. good opposition and maybe a few events in the game get things going it'll be a fantastic atmosphere. If we're bossing a lower half side with 75% possession it just won't be as loud. It's the new normal.

Ticket prices aren't the issue ... we just don't "need" football like we used to. So in the clear light of day a January game v. Stoke really doesn't seem like something to be going utterly mental about. Not saying it's a good thing ... it's just a thing.