F1 2021

[TaffyToffee85]

I just hope it was worth it for the 140,000 Shamilton fans is such a fixed race and super-spreader event at that.

In a few days it will be “PING!, PING!, PING!, PING!, PING!, PING!!!!!”.

 

[Bungle]

I just hope it was worth it for the 140,000 Shamilton fans is such a fixed race and super-spreader event at that.

In a few days it will be “PING!, PING!, PING!, PING!, PING!, PING!!!!!”.

Make up your mind mate, are large scale events ok when it involves people you don't mind? You said the sport died when Murray Walker died, so I'm just struggling to understand why you're so enraged by it.

 

[evilwebby]

Funnily enough, Fangio himself said Clark was the best.

He said that Clark and Senna were the only 2 drivers who were comparable to himself, but he died in 1995 so never really saw peak Schumacher onwards. I got no problems at all with Fangio/Clark/Senna, but I would also put Schumacher and Hamilton right alongside these. All of them generational talents. Max too has potential to reach that, but he needs the wins and championships before he can be seriously considered.

 

[longers]

It's pointless comparing drivers from Fangio and Clarks era with todays drivers or basically any drivers since F1 became aero dominated. The driving style required to drive a 1950s F1 car is completely different to that required to drive a car with a ton of downforce. Its like comparing a rally driver to a modern F1 driver, pointless. Fangio and Clarks necks wouldn't last more than a couple of laps in a modern F1 car and modern drivers might not have the stomach to drive the wheeled deathtraps that Fangio and Clark drove.

That said I always find it a little odd when people who weren't alive to see either Fangio or Clark race can be so confident of them being the best ever when they almost certainly never got to see them race given F1 was not televised and there is very little footage of the races that were captured on film. All our knowledge of them is based on word of mouth rather than our own formed opinions based on watching them every week. They were clearly the best of their era but the level of competitiveness in motorsport back then was miles off what it is today, it was far more niche and exclusive sport and thus the talent pool was tiny relative to today (where it's still too small)

 

[evilwebby]

As far as I can see Mercedes only won one race before Hamilton arrived, which was Rosberg. Unless I'm misinterpreting your post.

People who say that Schumacher developed the Mercedes team conveniently forget that Rosberg was also there, and doing a better job.

Schumacher mk1 was a world class generationally talently driver, but Schumacher mk2 was no more than a mid tier driver, frustrated that he was unable to scale the previous heights that seemingly came so easily to him. When I remember Michael Schumacher in F1 I only consider his first stint. Had he never come back his career stats average would be much more impressive than they now are.

 

[evilwebby]

Yes he was, marginally. Depending on your yardstick, you can also make a case for Lewis. They key here is he did not show himself to be head and shoulders above Button.

Button did a good job at McLaren, but a big part of the reason why Lewis left was that the dynamics of the team wasn't allowing him to get the best out of himself. The team was siding more and more with Jenson with the direction and focus on how to develop the car, and we all know that Jenson had a pretty narrow driving window whereas Lewis can handle a fast but difficult car.

His 2011 season was messy, yes (the soap opera with Nicole wasn't doing him any favours) but then RBR was all conquering that year and it wouldn't have mattered how well he had driven. Even so, I thought he put in 2 great wins that year in China and Germany reminding us of his talent. His 2012 season was absolutely sublime and he really should have won the Championship that year if McLaren didn't keep shooting themselves in the foot.

All drivers can have poor years, but what matters is that you produce your best when you have the opportunity. Since his move to Mercedes he's taken it to another level, and each year he has improved and become a more complete and well rounded driver. This is now Hamilton's 15th season in the sport. Any athlete competing at the top level that long is going to have their ups and downs, but remarkably Hamilton is driving as well as ever, all things considered. Compare that to the only two current drivers more experienced than him, Raikkonen who is phoning it in each weekend, and Alonso who, let's be honest, is not at the level he was between 2009-2015 and could not do what Max or Lewis are currently doing if you plonked him into either of those teams.

 

[messymascot]

I think Alonso is in that top bracket of driver. He nearly won the Championship twice with the third best car on the grid when he was at Ferrari. He has always out performed his team mates with the exception of Hamilton and there was strange things going on that season.

 

[Baines' left foot]

Schumacher went in when Ferrari had been absolutely nowhere for years and years. He was the key to turning them into a dominant force. The argument about competition is flawed, as Hamilton has had virtually none through the Mercedes years.

Schumacher was up against (often in inferior machinery) Hakkinen, Villeneuve, Montoya, Alonso, Coulthard, Prost, Senna, Hill, Mansell, Button, Montoya, etc.

Schumacher was a cheat though. A prolific cheat at that. If he was so good then why did he feel the need to use shady tactics?

For that reason alone he is below Hamilton.

 

[Dom1878]

Is now a safe time to talk about Russel - again?

Yet another absolutely superb qualifying, boosted by the sprint race, all to finish 2 places ahead of latifi...Is Latifi really that good in the race or is russel just fairly bad at races? Yet to see a single stand out performance from him on a Sunday, and yes say all you want about the car, but they're far more competitive than they've been in a while.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Schumacher was a cheat though. A prolific cheat at that. If he was so good then why did he feel the need to use shady tactics?

For that reason alone he is below Hamilton.

Yeah, because Hamilton has never cheated or lied to stewards?

 

[Baines' left foot]

Yeah, because Hamilton has never cheated or lied to stewards?

Please show me an incident involving Hamilton which is even close to the blatantness of cheating shown by Schumacher in the 1994 incident with Damon Hill and 1997 with Jacques Villeneuve. Schumacher is also the only driver to ever be disqualified from a world drivers championship.

That's not mentioning the fuel pump incident.

They don't compare.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Yeah, because Hamilton has never cheated or lied to stewards?

Hamilton has never tried to *blatantly* run his championship rival off the road (twice) or park his car in Monaco to put it on pole. #Levels.

And by the way most here think Schumacher was a great driver, not like you need to convince anyone, but saying Schumacher is dirtier than Hamilton is like saying the sky is blue or you make toast using bread, inarguable.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Hamilton has never tried to *blatantly* run his championship rival off the road (twice) or park his car in Monaco to put it on pole. #Levels.

And by the way most here think Schumacher was a great driver, not like you need to convince anyone, but saying Schumacher is dirtier than Hamilton is like saying the sky is blue or you make toast using bread, inarguable.

Hamilton blatantly ran into the back of Kimi Raikkonen in the pitlane when he was caught off-guard by a red light at the end of the pits. He was going to plunge into a backmarker, but swerved to take out his rival. It was an early season incident, so not as widely noted, but Lewis is as ruthless as anyone.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Hamilton blatantly ran into the back of Kimi Raikkonen in the pitlane when he was caught off-guard by a red light at the end of the pits. He was going to plunge into a backmarker, but swerved to take out his rival. It was an early season incident, so not as widely noted, but Lewis is as ruthless as anyone.

That backmarker was Kubica who was jointly leading the championship after he WON that race. When you are driving and you are about to plough into the back of somebody you try to avoid it, he just didn't have the lock to get around Kimi as well. He wasn't paying attention and neither was Rosberg, but that happens when you are still green.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

That backmarker was Kubica who was jointly leading the championship after he WON that race. When you are driving and you are about to plough into the back of somebody you try to avoid it, he just didn't have the lock to get around Kimi as well. He wasn't paying attention and neither was Rosberg, but that happens when you are still green.

WIlliams was never a threat and Kimi was the reigning world champion. Was clear as day at the time.