Everton v Espanyol

[dholliday]

I don't need to you do, as you made the initial argument.

fair enough, baz

 

[sageyefc]

so if you agree with the rest of my argument, it makes it tricky to still say the league is stronger now than it was during Moyes's era. Surely performance in Europe is the most effective yardstick?

It's not stronger or weaker it's just more equal

 

[Brennan]

so if you agree with the rest of my argument, it makes it tricky to still say the league is stronger now than it was during Moyes's era. Surely performance in Europe is the most effective yardstick?

I have already said that the top teams, the teams traditionally competing in the CL year on year, have weakened. That would explain the lack of success in the Champions League for English sides. That does not however show that the league as a whole is weaker. One does not follow the other.

The Europa League cannot be used in your argument as English teams simply don't place as much value in it traditionally as the Premier League.

 

[dholliday]

I have already said that the top teams, the teams traditionally competing in the CL year on year, have weakened. That would explain the lack of success in the Champions League for English sides. That does not however show that the league as a whole is weaker. One does not follow the other.

The Europa League cannot be used in your argument as English teams simply don't place as much value in it traditionally as the Premier League.

what @sageyefc said above your post I think is a fair comment.

But we were best-of-the-rest, and the best have now weakened. From our perspective, it thus feels like a weaker league. At least it does from mine. For otherwise it means we've weakened too (which we have, so fair game also).

 

[Brennan]

what @sageyefc said above your post I think is a fair comment.

But we were best-of-the-rest, and the best have now weakened. From our perspective, it thus feels like a weaker league. At least it does from mine. For otherwise it means we've weakened too (which we have, so fair game also).

The problem with that line of reasoning is that you don't only play the best teams in the league every week.

Moyes was successful because he had us performing very well at home against the teams below us, and performing okay away from home against the teams below us. He was useless against the big teams away from home, and middling against them at Goodison.

We are now in a situation where games between the top 10 sides are generally much more competitive. That is why there has been such a mish mash of league placings in the last two years compared to ten years ago. Because the league is stronger.

Quite simple imo.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

What a wise RS fan once said.

"One of the classic, unwritten rules in football, is that you should be worried if your team is winning preseason games."

After they just got beat that was.

 

[dholliday]

The problem with that line of reasoning is that you don't only play the best teams in the league every week.

Moyes was successful because he had us performing very well at home against the teams below us, and performing okay away from home against the teams below us. He was useless against the big teams away from home, and middling against them at Goodison.

We are now in a situation where games between the top 10 sides are generally much more competitive. That is why there has been such a mish mash of league placings in the last two years compared to ten years ago. Because the league is stronger.

Quite simple imo.

Disagree with your logic and conclusion, mate. But the bolded bit was unfortunately very true.

 

[AndyC]

My take on today... There's a lot of work to be done in key areas.

Stekelenberg was okay in goal but I'd still like to see a top, top goalie brought in... and it won't be Schmeichel as he's signed a five-year extension at Leicester.

Baines is a wee bit of a concern as he seems to have lost a lot of confidence going forward, and he still - for me - stands off his winger too much.

RFM was poor, didn't win one aerial challenge today... I expect a serious move for Williams this week.

Stones was okay, and I think we need to move heaven and earth to retain him.

Seamus was okay, but as with Baines, still hasn't recovered his free-raiding form of three seasons ago.

Barry anchored the midfield effectively allowing Ross and Gueye to do the running around for him. Still strong in the tackle and we need his experience big time.

Deulofeu flitted in and out, and really needs to up his concentration levels... and he's got to get stronger on the ball too.

Ross did okay, some lovely footwork and sweet turns... and it was noticeable that RK was urging to play further forward.

Mirallas worked hard wide left , but doesn't have anything close to the rapport with Baines that Pienaar had. Still it's good to see him looking keen and eager to impress and trying to cement a starting role.

Lukaku actually won a number of aerial challenges today, the trouble is the rest of the team don't really expect him to so the flicks on etc generally came to nothing. He needs someone to play in a genuine two-pronged attack, be it Ross or a top forward.

And leaves Gueye. Showed a great deal today that I'm sure RK will be generally pleased with. A tad unlucky with the challenge that Oliver gave the pen for as from where I was sat it looked outside the box. Definitely a poorly timed tackle, but it was his debut and that aside, he did fine.

As for the subs, there's one major problem... RK was visibly vexed/raging/fuming at McCarthy for his sideways and backwards passing. On three occasions when McCarthy could have driven forward with purpose he chose the easy, safe option and RK threw his arms in the air in despair each time.

I'm no expert on body language, but if I had to take a guess, I'd say RK will be suggesting to Steve Walsh to find a buyer for McCarthy and then he'll be demanding Mata or Witsel or someone with some positivity in their play is brought in tout suite to replace him.

We need a spine through the middle of the team and we haven't got it yet.
A top, top goalie... and a vocal one like Jimenez of Espanyol today is required to inspire confidence in the back 4/5.
A top centre back, and we've made the move for Williams, we now need to get that deal done !!
A top midfielder to direct play forward with invention and intention and really take charge of the transitional side of the game.
And a top forward to play with Lukaku or, if his injury is worse than it looked, in place of him with Ross in support.

RK did not look overly happy at times, and I expect some serious, serious transfer market work to happen this week.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Come on lads, it was a glorified training session ffs! Yes it was pretty poor and we have obvious problems that need to be addressed but lets give RK some time to work on the problems eh?! It's clear that this season will be one for rebuilding and I for one am ok with that providing we show definite improvements as the season goes on.

 

[Super Kevin sheedy]

Bad performance today, next Saturday has got to be quite the opposite, strong words and a few decent signings by Ronnie and co before then.

 

[Dario Terracotta]

Rush of blood for the penalty apart I thought an impressive,energetic performance from gueye,defensively we look more solid,sorry I'm struggling for many more positives from that today!

 

[jinkyali]

Stones really needs to either stay or go.

 

[Goat]

Stones really needs to either stay or go.

Excellent input there.

 

[silent bob]

Stones really needs to either stay or go.

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[ToffeeDan]

What with all my troubles I've found it hard to give a damn, then of course the new season comes around and I've got back into the mood - ok, Evertonthat FC managed to blow it against all the decent and not so decent opposition - Dresden bombed on, Bettys made us look like Frank Spencer and United, well, zzzz.. and now we're beaten by a Dog - and not even a Rottweiler but a bloody Spaniel..

Something good needs to happen REAL SOON.