Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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Research from the excellent JRF for anyone interested:

https://www.jrf.org.uk/press/people-pushed-margins-driven-vote-brexit

Not sure I agree with all the analysis but this quote seems especially pertinent:

“With energy focussed on the process of leaving the EU, there’s a danger the concerns of people at home are ignored. This analysis should act as beacon for politicians who often talk about representing the concerns of ordinary people.

“The rapid pace of change in the economy has left too many people without the skills and opportunity to get on in life. We must act to ensure prosperity reaches all corners of the country, and provide everyone the chance to earn a good wage in a secure job.'
 
peteblue said:
He ?.........
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I do stand corrected - PM is she - Beata Szydło, since Nov 2015. In March 2016 she closed the door on refuges - “I say very clearly that I see no possibility at this time of immigrants coming to Poland,” and in May 2016 early moves included dissolving a state council designed to combat racism and hate crimes, which was widely condemned.
How time flies - I had in mind the former President Jarosław Kaczyński, Leader of Szydło's Law and Justice party. Szydło had led Andrzej Duda's successful presidential campaign to succeed Kaczyński. Interesting article about the latter's approach here http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/02/11/kaczynski-eu-problem-with-poland/ .
 
JammyP said:
I do stand corrected - PM is she - Beata Szydło, since Nov 2015. In March 2016 she closed the door on refuges - “I say very clearly that I see no possibility at this time of immigrants coming to Poland,” and in May 2016 early moves included dissolving a state council designed to combat racism and hate crimes, which was widely condemned.
How time flies - I had in mind the former President Jarosław Kaczyński, Leader of Szydło's Law and Justice party. Szydło had led Andrzej Duda's successful presidential campaign to succeed Kaczyński. Interesting article about the latter's approach here http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/02/11/kaczynski-eu-problem-with-poland/ .
Click to expand...

The thing is though that if they don't want refugees, it doesn't mean they are racist, it may of course, but we have to remember where many of these ex communist countries have come from. They are still years behind the west from a liberal standpoint and may in fact fear the dilution of their national beliefs. We have been doing it for a long time and still don't all agree upon whether it is in the national good. Major change is always unnerving and often results in war. Fortunately we haven't so far seen this but let's not believe that it could not happen. If Turkey made good on it's promise to open up the floodgates of refugees and release 3M people across to the EU, I could well see armed conflict breaking out with that country.........
 
peteblue said:
The thing is though that if they don't want refugees, it doesn't mean they are racist, it may of course, but we have to remember where many of these ex communist countries have come from. They are still years behind the west from a liberal standpoint and may in fact fear the dilution of their national beliefs. We have been doing it for a long time and still don't all agree upon whether it is in the national good. Major change is always unnerving and often results in war. Fortunately we haven't so far seen this but let's not believe that it could not happen. If Turkey made good on it's promise to open up the floodgates of refugees and release 3M people across to the EU, I could well see armed conflict breaking out with that country.........
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I posted this a while back Pete, but I'll repeat it here. There have been various studies into national beliefs and cultures, and perhaps obviously they found there isn't a narrow but rather a broad spectrum of beliefs within any nation. So if we take Poland as an example, there will be those leaning more towards a liberal bent and those leaning towards a more conservative bent. In Czech, for instance, residents of Prague tend to be very different in their mindset to those in the provinces.

Now, given that we tend to move to places that are reasonably like us, do you think that the Polish folks moving to Britain (a traditionally liberal culture) are going to be the urban, liberal types or the rural, conservative types? It seems intuitive to me, and consistent with my personal experiences, that the A8 migrants that come to Britain are the people who have most in common with traditional British values. That's why places like London thrive with such high levels of migration, because despite the huge variety of nationalities and cultures, there is much more that binds us all together than separates us.
 
Chewbacca said:
And in 20 years time it won't be low wage immigrants we need to worry about, it will be wholesale automation of manufacturing.

The rich will need to understand that they need to pay off the unskilled when that day comes or there will be no-one to aim the anger at but the rich.
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That's the case already. Many pages ago now I referenced a UN report into automation, and it said that the developing world is likely to see heavy labour market disruption due to automation, as we have outsourced the more routine and predictable jobs to those countries. So the idea that these jobs will be brought back to the UK is wrong imo. The work may come back, but the work will be done by machines rather than humans.

Now, of course, jobs aren't a fixed lump, so new jobs will emerge as existing ones are automated, but this requires a level of adaptability in ones skillset that many are not prepared for at all. It's ironic really, as Brexiters argue that remain voters are voting for the status quo, when the reality is the reverse in that Brexit voters typically want to put up the barriers to change and competition and revert life to a simpler, slower paced time.

It risks creating a huge urban/rural divide, especially as most of these new jobs that have been so celebrated as examples of Britain remaining attractive have been in our cities, so they're not really helping the very people who voted to leave. How this whole process will help those people is as yet very unclear, whether in leaked memos, handritten notes or official decree.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
I posted this a while back Pete, but I'll repeat it here. There have been various studies into national beliefs and cultures, and perhaps obviously they found there isn't a narrow but rather a broad spectrum of beliefs within any nation. So if we take Poland as an example, there will be those leaning more towards a liberal bent and those leaning towards a more conservative bent. In Czech, for instance, residents of Prague tend to be very different in their mindset to those in the provinces.

Now, given that we tend to move to places that are reasonably like us, do you think that the Polish folks moving to Britain (a traditionally liberal culture) are going to be the urban, liberal types or the rural, conservative types? It seems intuitive to me, and consistent with my personal experiences, that the A8 migrants that come to Britain are the people who have most in common with traditional British values. That's why places like London thrive with such high levels of migration, because despite the huge variety of nationalities and cultures, there is much more that binds us all together than separates us.
Click to expand...
London thrives what with rich foreign bankers buying up properties, a great documentary on London on a certain road were the English poor who had lived in posh slum housed in the 1920-to 19560's had been removed into a ghetto of flats, ant the end of the road even more galling to keep them out they blocked the road off with a one way pedestrianisation road, and what they called snobs now lived in done up £4 million properties BBC i it Bruce to see how fair multiculturalism is the original cockneys did not think it was fair as you put it !
I know its supposed to be progress, etc but so sad to see a community of all cultures just removed!
 
r

the next nail for the EURO
 
Joey66 said:
London thrives what with rich foreign bankers buying up properties, a great documentary on London on a certain road were the English poor who had lived in posh slum housed in the 1920-to 19560's had been removed into a ghetto of flats, ant the end of the road even more galling to keep them out they blocked the road off with a one way pedestrianisation road, and what they called snobs now lived in done up £4 million properties BBC i it Bruce to see how fair multiculturalism is the original cockneys did not think it was fair as you put it !
I know its supposed to be progress, etc but so sad to see a community of all cultures just removed!
Click to expand...
bit of an article on it here
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-the-exodus-of-600000-whites-from-London.html
 
Joey66 said:
London thrives what with rich foreign bankers buying up properties, a great documentary on London on a certain road were the English poor who had lived in posh slum housed in the 1920-to 19560's had been removed into a ghetto of flats, ant the end of the road even more galling to keep them out they blocked the road off with a one way pedestrianisation road, and what they called snobs now lived in done up £4 million properties BBC i it Bruce to see how fair multiculturalism is the original cockneys did not think it was fair as you put it !
I know its supposed to be progress, etc but so sad to see a community of all cultures just removed!
Click to expand...

This is what's so frustrating Joe. You ignore 99% of my post, and instead focus upon something of which you have no personal experience and which has no relevance to anything I wrote.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
This is what's so frustrating Joe. You ignore 99% of my post, and instead focus upon something of which you have no personal experience and which has no relevance to anything I wrote.
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It risks creating a huge urban/rural divide
You are the one who states London accepts multiculturalism easier than other parts of the country never mind mechanisation its happening in cases now where homesters are having to get out of London
in your post -

It risks creating a huge urban/rural divide- that's already happening, without mechanisation Bruce that's my point property becoming unaffordable to bankers who caused the crash!
Watch that program were foreign bankers are ousting the indigenous population, and not to the country but into a ghetto of flats !
 
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