Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Tubey]

Indeed, so why not quote what Corbyn or Benn or any other politician says about Brexit, for heavens sake they all have something to say, why not quote Cameron or Osborne......why would anyone chose Blair ?.......

Nobody has - he's just an addition to a much wider conversation. Nobody is saying his word is law on this. All I'm saying is that what he said makes sense, regardless of who said it.

If the words came out of Corbyn's mouth, or May, or some bloke down the street, it's the same thing.

 

[Tubey]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/73...isbon-treat-brexit-Ingrid-Detter-de-Frankopan

Thoughts anyone?

She's biased for a start. As in she detests the EU. So she's blinkered.

That said, she's completely right in terms of how we could constitutionally do it. But it'd be incredibly stupid. It'd be like going to a car boot sale and not haggling the price - sure, you could just bid the top offer, but why would you when there's a chance to get it cheaper.

And then in the case of Brexit to add on to that analogy, it's like standing there getting a fiver every couple of seconds while you negotiate, because whether people like it or not, we economically benefit from Europe while we're in it. So all that exiting the EU immediately would do is send business and trade into absolute chaos for no reason whatsoever, and give us no time whatsoever to negotiate trade elsewhere, set up immigration systems and so on. We'd have cut the safety line well before we were safe.

 

[peteblue]

The projections cover a wide variety of options and generally assume Brexit means leaving the single market - which is the correct assumption as there's no other way to do it unless you effectively stay in the EU. Again, something Blair correctly pointed out.

You're right in that things can be unpredictable, but at least there's been an attempt to study the effects and many independent bodies have the same line of trajectory on this. They may be all wrong, but when you have that level of consensus, it would be foolish to just laugh it off. You have to make decisions based on something, not just "oh I'm sure it'll be fine."

You are falling into the same trap by saying we must leave the single Market or stay in. The Eu will be going through fundamental change, Schulz has gone, Juncker will probably follow. France and Germany will probably have different leaders, and if Russia does pull a stunt then the East Europeans will look very favourably on the UK. Germany is on the hook for a €50Bn trade surplus that it enjoys with the Uk and even more with the USA. Trump may well offer the UK a trade deal that affects those German trade surpluses. Everything could change and a UK solution found. There are too many people jumping to conclusions before a single negotiation has started. They say a week is a long time in Politics, well two years is an absolute eternity......it's all to play for....

 

[Tubey]

You are falling into the same trap by saying we must leave the single Market or stay in. The Eu will be going through fundamental change, Schulz has gone, Juncker will probably follow. France and Germany will probably have different leaders, and if Russia does pull a stunt then the East Europeans will look very favourably on the UK. Germany is on the hook for a €50Bn trade surplus that it enjoys with the Uk and even more with the USA. Trump may well offer the UK a trade deal that affects those German trade surpluses. Everything could change and a UK solution found. There are too many people jumping to conclusions before a single negotiation has started. They say a week is a long time in Politics, well two years is an absolute eternity......it's all to play for....

That's not a trap, it's fact...

 

[peteblue]

That's not a trap, it's fact...

Nothing is a fact until after negotiations.......

 

[Joey66]

Can I ask you an honest question?

Do you think if there was to be another referendum now, bearing in mind where we are at as a nation since the first one, that a leave vote would win again?

No,second referendum maybe a GE!

 

[Joey66]

She's biased for a start. As in she detests the EU. So she's blinkered.

That said, she's completely right in terms of how we could constitutionally do it. But it'd be incredibly stupid. It'd be like going to a car boot sale and not haggling the price - sure, you could just bid the top offer, but why would you when there's a chance to get it cheaper.

And then in the case of Brexit to add on to that analogy, it's like standing there getting a fiver every couple of seconds while you negotiate, because whether people like it or not, we economically benefit from Europe while we're in it. So all that exiting the EU immediately would do is send business and trade into absolute chaos for no reason whatsoever, and give us no time whatsoever to negotiate trade elsewhere, set up immigration systems and so on. We'd have cut the safety line well before we were safe.

Your not biases either are youlol
Almost 6 months the two year span curtailed as the mep elections will start so ASAP stop the Supreme Court as well save funds!
Time line from March if article 50 goes through 18 months?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

That's not a trap, it's fact...

This ^ and a bag of Monster Munch

The alternative to single market access is what exactly @peteblue @Joey66 ? and how does this alternative purport to be able to create ongoing growth in our GDP in the next decade?

In your own time lads....

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

No,second referendum maybe a GE!

For someone who shouts democracy at every opportunity what's your issue with giving the nation a chance to review its choice, when the actual choice is made apparent?

 

[Joey66]

For someone who shouts democracy at every opportunity what's your issue with giving the nation a chance to review its choice, when the actual choice is made apparent?

Believe or not I voted twice to join the common market the U.K. Had the infrastructure to trade Worldwide so we did ok we had commonwealth immigration no problems we had sea ports for exports and imports we had a fishing industry.
I did not vote to be governed from Brussels only in the last referendum the experts predicted gloom and doom as soon as an OUT vote was passed Tim Farron is making himself look a right idiot now on QT booed in fact- the experts are saying it's the last ten years we have gone backwards the time we have been in the EU by the way -rich greedy bankers ruined the last ten years corporate businesses favour the EU the complainants are mainly big business apart from JCB - Free trade with the world every country uses the EU single market apart from Belarhus, if thus government can't deliver Brexit on the timetable then yes a GE would be the best option IMO!

 

[Barnfred 55]

You are falling into the same trap by saying we must leave the single Market or stay in. The Eu will be going through fundamental change, Schulz has gone, Juncker will probably follow. France and Germany will probably have different leaders, and if Russia does pull a stunt then the East Europeans will look very favourably on the UK. Germany is on the hook for a €50Bn trade surplus that it enjoys with the Uk and even more with the USA. Trump may well offer the UK a trade deal that affects those German trade surpluses. Everything could change and a UK solution found. There are too many people jumping to conclusions before a single negotiation has started. They say a week is a long time in Politics, well two years is an absolute eternity......it's all to play for....

Everyone assumes both sides will make life as difficult as possible for the other. But I think both have far too much to lose for that to happen.

The whole thing revolves around free trade and free movement. I can see both sides concede a litttle so a deal can be struck whilst saving face politically.

 

[The Esk]

Sir John Major has declared there is a “perfectly credible” case for a second referendum on Brexit and people who voted to remain should not be subject to the “tyranny of the majority”.

The former prime minister said the views of Remain voters should be heard in the debate about how Britain will leave the European Union.

Parliament, not the government, should make the final decision on any new deal with the remaining members of the EU and there was a “perfectly credible case” for a second referendum.

“I hear the argument that the 48% of people who voted to stay should have no say in what happens,” he said.

“I find that very difficult to accept. The tyranny of the majority has never applied in a democracy and it should not apply in this particular democracy.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...erfectly-credible-case-for-second-referendum?

 

[Joey66]

Sir John Major has declared there is a “perfectly credible” case for a second referendum on Brexit and people who voted to remain should not be subject to the “tyranny of the majority”.

The former prime minister said the views of Remain voters should be heard in the debate about how Britain will leave the European Union.

Parliament, not the government, should make the final decision on any new deal with the remaining members of the EU and there was a “perfectly credible case” for a second referendum.

“I hear the argument that the 48% of people who voted to stay should have no say in what happens,” he said.

“I find that very difficult to accept. The tyranny of the majority has never applied in a democracy and it should not apply in this particular democracy.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...erfectly-credible-case-for-second-referendum?

Sir\John Major and Tony blair are only self interested in the pensions for either themselves or their collegues they got jobs for in the EU - not democrocy of a referendum were they governed our contry on less of the vote than OUT got 52% constinuancy wise it would have been 400 -200 in favour of OUT !
#Its about time they got the dictionary and looked up what democracy is imo!

 

[Joey66]

Sir John Major has declared there is a “perfectly credible” case for a second referendum on Brexit and people who voted to remain should not be subject to the “tyranny of the majority”.

The former prime minister said the views of Remain voters should be heard in the debate about how Britain will leave the European Union.

Parliament, not the government, should make the final decision on any new deal with the remaining members of the EU and there was a “perfectly credible case” for a second referendum.

“I hear the argument that the 48% of people who voted to stay should have no say in what happens,” he said.

“I find that very difficult to accept. The tyranny of the majority has never applied in a democracy and it should not apply in this particular democracy.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...erfectly-credible-case-for-second-referendum?

48% lost those two cretins are only worried about them selves or their collegues who will lose their EU pensions - how dare the public go against the mainstream politicians in both houses !!!
They when given rule never got 52 % of any vote in fact if it was constituency target it would be 400 seats for our to 200 for remain a absolute hammering for them democracy wise - they governed this country on less of a vote!
Totally hypocritical the times did a poll in the Times and the out vote had rose to 70%, so roll out these bums !
any politician oe ex politician who is trying to revers democracy of the people are a tragic waste of space Tim farron and Clegg are up there with them two a party of 8 trying to dictate reverse the vote frankly sickens me!

 

[Moomin]

It's quite clear, we should never had a referendum in the first place as shown by no plan to trigger article 50.

We should have another vote next year on the basis the leave group have an actual plan in place.

Also, the voting system needs to change for this referendum. 18-30 years of age people get a total of 4 votes as they will have to endure the result of the vote for the longest period of time.

31-45 years of age get three votes.

46-60 years of age get two votes

61 years of age and above gets one vote.