Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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That isn't strictly speaking true though is it? Corbyn was voted for by the Labour party membership. There are ~500,000 Labour party members, yet > 9 million people voted for them in the last election, which if my maths is right makes that about 5% of the people who voted Labour at the last (dismal) election. Now it's quite possible that the party membership does represent the wider Labour voting population, but I'm not sure we can really say that with any certainty, can we?

Other than some minor tweaks that method of election has been in place for some time. Blairs great hypocrisy is considering Corbyns supporters as usurping the party, something he and Mandelson engineered back in the 90s. Even Smith's death was very 'timely'.
 
Ironically, if consumers could be bothered they hold a greater ability to direct the behaviour of corporations and businesses just by not buying their wares, but they genuinely can't, either through naivety, laziness or distraction.

This is spot on, especially in today's world where social media can be utilised to gather allies.........
 
But you did know that the worst case position was trade via WTO rules with a body who sells us more than we do to them. You also knew that once out we could develop faster trade deals with many other countries. Like I said, we knew as much about Leave as we did about remain.....it's only fear of change that holds us back.......

No, I didnt. I didnt give more than a nano second of thought to stuff like that. Like, as I said, pretty much most of the electorate, I reckon anyrate.

Fear of change? Yeah, maybe. But it was honestly on the basis that, in my opinion, life in general, society in general, whilst not perfect, aint that bad. And some of the Leavers I encountered on my round in the weeks before the vote, were frankly quite appalling in their views.

Not, that I would ever put you or other Leavers on here, in that group.
 
No, I didnt. I didnt give more than a nano second of thought to stuff like that. Like, as I said, pretty much most of the electorate, I reckon anyrate.

Fear of change? Yeah, maybe. But it was honestly on the basis that, in my opinion, life in general, society in general, whilst not perfect, aint that bad. And some of the Leavers I encountered on my round in the weeks before the vote, were frankly quite appalling in their views.

Not, that I would ever put you or other Leavers on here, in that group.

I understand that there are masses of unknowns and also that change does worry people. But change can be a magnificent force for improvement, Industrialists and Political leaders understand this. As has already been shown so far, life seems to still be going on, countries are lining up to do trade deals and even the USA result has gone in our favour from a potential trade point of view......
 
I'm aware Blair is toxic to many, however as I said earlier read his words on Brexit. The ideologically driven approach is to go for Brexit regardless of the consequences.

The pragmatic approach driven by what's best for the nation as a whole is to have flexibility in the outcome because it never makes sense to substitute a set of circumstances for a worse one. That is indisputable logic.
Blair the same guy who stated he had never met professor David Kelly over weapons of mass destruction - when alleged to have committed suicide you mean Blair sat as chairman in front of him to hear his pleads that Sadam did not have any such weapons?
If your hoping for him to fetch a resistance to Brexit - fetch him on lol:D
 
I understand that there are masses of unknowns and also that change does worry people. But change can be a magnificent force for improvement, Industrialists and Political leaders understand this. As has already been shown so far, life seems to still be going on, countries are lining up to do trade deals and even the USA result has gone in our favour from a potential trade point of view......

Sure, after the vote I posted along the lines of "lets just crack on and if we all pull together, History shows we get it sorted, eventually". Vault me if you can be bothered.

But my central point, vis a vis the Blair thing, was that he was actually correct. We dont/didnt have a clue, to paraphrase. The wider population that is.
 
I'm aware Blair is toxic to many, however as I said earlier read his words on Brexit. The ideologically driven approach is to go for Brexit regardless of the consequences.

The pragmatic approach driven by what's best for the nation as a whole is to have flexibility in the outcome because it never makes sense to substitute a set of circumstances for a worse one. That is indisputable logic.

But the problem was for many that they existed in a worse case already. Support for the EU, to the extent brexiteers are labelled, is still ideological, a strong belief in a federalist state, remenber that austerity was EU policy.

This is the doing of corrupt people and minds me of a quote of Jefferson's..

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation….

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness… it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

we are at that point now
 
I will admit that is the argument that a lot of the PLP have used, but it doesn't really stand up to any sort of scrutiny.

Blair did not become leader of the Labour Party as the result of the wider electorate voted for him, he got in because he won an election based on the rules of the Labour Party at the time; with the exception of Gordon Brown, that is how every recent Labour leader won that office. At no point has the wider Labour vote been asked to endorse a leader in order to win the party leadership, so to make it a specific criticism of Corbyn's two victories is a bit nonsensical.
Blair became leader because a better politician than him died John Smith!
 
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