Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

I understood the ramifications of staying.

I didnt know the ramifications of leaving. Hence why I voted that way, mainly.

Read what I post, not what you want to read.

But you didn't know the ramifications of staying.....did you know that an EU army would be formed, or that the EU would override the Dutch voters and offer Ukraine visa free entry, or whether or not Merkel may open the doors again, or that the TTIP would be thrown in the bin, or that even the CETA agreement had to bullied through or that the Walloons had a veto.......you may have known the starting point, but have as much idea of where the EU is going as where a Brexit UK may go.........

 

[peteblue]

Blair? No.

But what he did say, chimes with what I thought a week or so after the vote. Hence, "Are you sure?"

A busted clock is right etc etc.

He just plays upon fears.....We have 24 hrs to save the NHS, Weapons of Mass Destruction can be employed within...etc etc......

 

[The Esk]

The logic of walking away from a deal that is not satisfactory is undeniable. Otherwise you at the mercy of the people on the opposing side of the table.

That's not politics, it's basic common sense.

 

[tsubaki]

That isn't strictly speaking true though is it? Corbyn was voted for by the Labour party membership. There are ~500,000 Labour party members, yet > 9 million people voted for them in the last election, which if my maths is right makes that about 5% of the people who voted Labour at the last (dismal) election. Now it's quite possible that the party membership does represent the wider Labour voting population, but I'm not sure we can really say that with any certainty, can we?

I will admit that is the argument that a lot of the PLP have used, but it doesn't really stand up to any sort of scrutiny.

Blair did not become leader of the Labour Party as the result of the wider electorate voted for him, he got in because he won an election based on the rules of the Labour Party at the time; with the exception of Gordon Brown, that is how every recent Labour leader won that office. At no point has the wider Labour vote been asked to endorse a leader in order to win the party leadership, so to make it a specific criticism of Corbyn's two victories is a bit nonsensical.

 

[roydo]

But you didn't know the ramifications of staying.....did you know that an EU army would be formed, or that the EU would override the Dutch voters and offer Ukraine visa free entry, or whether or not Merkel may open the doors again, or that the TTIP would be thrown in the bin, or that even the CETA agreement had to bullied through or that the Walloons had a veto.......you may have known the starting point, but have as much idea of where the EU is going as where a Brexit UK may go.........

I knew we had a decent trade deal. The rest, you are correct. Not a clue.

 

[tsubaki]

The logic of walking away from a deal that is not satisfactory is undeniable. Otherwise you at the mercy of the people on the opposing side of the table.

That's not politics, it's basic common sense.

Blair isn't advocating that, though. He is advocating walking away from whatever deal is on whatever table, in favour of remain.

 

[roydo]

He just plays upon fears.....We have 24 hrs to save the NHS, Weapons of Mass Destruction can be employed within...etc etc......

Dont they all?

 

[peteblue]

The logic of walking away from a deal that is not satisfactory is undeniable. Otherwise you at the mercy of the people on the opposing side of the table.

That's not politics, it's basic common sense.

As is keeping your negotiating position secret, and not agitating for a second EU vote after negotiations which gives the EU an incentive to come up with the worst deal possible so that we stay........it's basic common sense.......

 

[peteblue]

Dont they all?

Not on as regular a basis......

 

[magicjuan]

With the ghastly Black Friday soon upon us, you won't get my defending consumerism. I guess all I was saying is that in any industrial dispute, the workers and the owners tend to be represented, but not the customer. The very maths of the situation underlines why that is. If you have £x being argued over, if you're dividing those spoils between, say, 1,000 employees or 100,000 customers, it clearly means more to each employee than it does to each customer, even if more people might benefit if the customer is taken into account.

Most technological developments fall into that camp.

Ironically, if consumers could be bothered they hold a greater ability to direct the behaviour of corporations and businesses just by not buying their wares, but they genuinely can't, either through naivety, laziness or distraction.

 

[roydo]

Not on as regular a basis......

He does have a rap sheet that would make most blush, have to say.

 

[The Esk]

As is keeping your negotiating position secret, and not agitating for a second EU vote after negotiations which gives the EU an incentive to come up with the worst deal possible so that we stay........it's basic common sense.......

How is "Brexit is Brexit" keeping your negotiating position secret ?

 

[peteblue]

I knew we had a decent trade deal. The rest, you are correct. Not a clue.

But you did know that the worst case position was trade via WTO rules with a body who sells us more than we do to them. You also knew that once out we could develop faster trade deals with many other countries. Like I said, we knew as much about Leave as we did about remain.....it's only fear of change that holds us back.......

 

[peteblue]

How is "Brexit is Brexit" keeping your negotiating position secret ?

Because it tells them nothing.....

 

[peteblue]

He does have a rap sheet that would make most blush, have to say.

But it wouldn't make him blush, he believes it all.....he's always right.....