Current Affairs EU In or Out

[The Esk]

I thought that may have been the case. My point and question still stands though why would you not do a deal with your largest trading partner ?

As far as Europe is concerned they have a deal in place and it is us that is changing the terms. Everyone I know in Europe sees Brexit as a lose/lose. Assuming Brexit goes ahead, there will be a deal at some point but the terms of the deal are never going to be better for either than what we have now - a single market free of tarrifs and without customs control.

The UK has to ask itself why it has been unable to take advantage of the single market in the same way as Germany and France (to a lesser extent) have achieved. That's the big question, never asked or answered. However Farage and the Eu- sceptic Conservatives would rather rip up a deal which currently is a win/win on the basis of politics rather than economics than face difficult challenges at home.

The whole Brexit event is built on weakness not strength. It's built on the inability of successive Governments to (i) educate the population as to the benefits of EU membership (ii) deal with the political miscreants within the Conservative party and UKIP and (iii) support business to have made the single market an even greater and more important part of our economy than it already is.

I don't think anyone really comprehends the scale of the challenge of a UK/EU divorce, the costs, the opportunity costs, the impact on the economy, and crucially our standing in global affairs. Overwhelmingly we face challenges that the Executive are not fit to face and resolve, the danger is very real that we will spectacularly damage what we already have and our prospects for the future.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

As an aside, the Science & Tech select committee are issuing a report on the implications of Brexit to the science industry on Friday. They provide an impartial service to parliament so it should be an interesting read.

 

[The Esk]

Not a question of % but of value.

PS, nice to be on ignore!

Who is on ignore?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Are there not some far left leaders around other than our own Jeremy and Co?

As the article I shared earlier pointed out, it's not even as straight forward as that, as ordinarily the likes of the Tories and Sarkozy's party in France aren't fascist in the slightest. Sadly however, both have lurched to the right in response to UKIP and the National Front, and it makes it harder to counter (as we saw with Clinton). Indeed, in America the only apparent counter argument was that a left-leaning populist was the answer, and I don't think Saunders was any more than Corbyn is here (albeit both seem infinitely nicer people than Trump and Farage).

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

Mate with all due respect, the Nazis rise to power was far more complex then a simple 'win' at an election. Even when they became the largest party in the equivalent of their parliament it wouldn't of been enough to actually gain any power in itself. Furthermore Hitler was never elected to any position of government power, nobody voted Hitler to be the Chancellor of Germany and he certainly was never elected to be the Fuhrer of the Rich. It would take literally thousands of pages to properly explain the rise of the Nazis but it definitely wasn't due to something as simple as a election victory.

I don't think I've suggested it did, just pointed out that they gained some support electorally. They fought elections with some success was the point.

 

[Joey66]

Of course they took over, but they still won an election with huge support. March 1933.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_March_1933#Results

When was he voted in by the people as dictator then ?chancelor yes on a minority's vote that's Google for you mine read partial success electory not a majority proceeded by storm troopers to kill trade unionist and communist in one day to size power as Furhor elected by his party!

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

I don't think I've suggested it did, just pointed out that they gained some support electorally. They fought elections with some success was the point.

Only after they sent gangs of Nazis loyalists to threaten people into voting as they were told.

 

[peteblue]

As far as Europe is concerned they have a deal in place and it is us that is changing the terms. Everyone I know in Europe sees Brexit as a lose/lose. Assuming Brexit goes ahead, there will be a deal at some point but the terms of the deal are never going to be better for either than what we have now - a single market free of tarrifs and without customs control.

The UK has to ask itself why it has been unable to take advantage of the single market in the same way as Germany and France (to a lesser extent) have achieved. That's the big question, never asked or answered. However Farage and the Eu- sceptic Conservatives would rather rip up a deal which currently is a win/win on the basis of politics rather than economics than face difficult challenges at home.

The whole Brexit event is built on weakness not strength. It's built on the inability of successive Governments to (i) educate the population as to the benefits of EU membership (ii) deal with the political miscreants within the Conservative party and UKIP and (iii) support business to have made the single market an even greater and more important part of our economy than it already is.

I don't think anyone really comprehends the scale of the challenge of a UK/EU divorce, the costs, the opportunity costs, the impact on the economy, and crucially our standing in global affairs. Overwhelmingly we face challenges that the Executive are not fit to face and resolve, the danger is very real that we will spectacularly damage what we already have and our prospects for the future.

The majority of your reply is about Brexit and we've done that and we are leaving. If your friends see a future trading relationship as lose/lose, then they have to ask what is needed for a win/win with a country that will be its largest trading partner. Why would anyone in the EU not want a situation where we go our separate way yet still trade in a fashion that benefits both parties. It is only their political dogma that needs to be overcome. I appreciate it will be difficult for them but they will need it just as much as ourselves, once they stop and think.......

 

[joey_macmo]

This absurd exchange relates to the last few pages quite well

 

[Joey66]

I don't think I've suggested it did, just pointed out that they gained some support electorally. They fought elections with some success was the point.

Don't wrigggle I. Pearly stated that they did not get a clear vote via the ballot box put it to bed FGS!
I was reponding to Bruce's post on powers changes in Europe pointing out the worst leader in history was not voted in democratically!

 

[The Esk]

The majority of your reply is about Brexit and we've done that and we are leaving. If your friends see a future trading relationship as lose/lose, then they have to ask what is needed for a win/win with a country that will be its largest trading partner. Why would anyone in the EU not want a situation where we go our separate way yet still trade in a fashion that benefits both parties. It is only their political dogma that needs to be overcome. I appreciate it will be difficult for them but they will need it just as much as ourselves, once they stop and think.......

The question is why we cannot trade more within the single market rather than destroy the existing arrangement which cannot be bettered for either parties in terms of a trade deal.

Brexit is not done, far from it.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

This absurd exchange relates to the last few pages quite well

It really is baffling how those three chancers are in charge of something so important.

 

[roydo]

It really is baffling how those three chancers are in charge of something so important.

Is it though? Baffling that is.

 

[The Esk]

It really is baffling how those three chancers are in charge of something so important.

lol

Mind when you look at the rest of the Eurosceptics there's not much to chose from.

The most competent minister is Philip Hammond but he's far too pro EU for the right.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

It really is baffling how those three chancers are in charge of something so important.

Because people voted tory at the GE perhaps, Bruce? Because people voted out? Or because May never won the leadership election, but rather took over by default?

If it weren't them, it'd be other complete imbeciles like ids, grayskull & shapps. Stop complaining. I reckon you voted for them tories at the GE anyway - so it's YOUR fault, you bad tory.