Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Professor Toffee]

I disagree, you are basically a nimby! You want to retain the status quo irrespective of the not so desirable aspects of staying in the EU. You side stepped my questions earlier on the future of the EU which in part is what your vote would contribute to.

You totally ignore that there could be very good prospects and opportunities outside the EU.

yeah China and Russia are looking for buddies, and that always works out well!

 

[peteblue]

So Blair and especially Brown had no hand in undermining the economy and industry?

It was all Thatchers fault apparently.......

 

[abelard]

Oh I agree that Thatcher had previously run down many industries, and for political purposes. But the article that was being quoted mentioned GEC which occurred under Blair and effectively presided over by Brown. I have have no problem in blaming the culprits but let's get it right......

This is what the article says: "Some of the most damaging cases of British industrial collapse took place during and following her period of office"

Nowhere does it blame Thatcher specifically for GEC specifically. It attributes the decline of British industry to both Thatcher and her successors. GEC is cited as an example of the latter, but it also describes several other examples. The article is a dispassionate, multifaceted analysis of a complex series of problems and historical trends. It is not trying to blame one Party and absolve the other, "four legs bad, two legs good" style, though evidently some will insist on interpreting it and many other pieces like it in just this sort of crude and reductive way.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

But the other day you said you were a centrist and a socialist, the two things Blair claimed to be. Surely he's your policital idol?

I think that chart you posted t'other day has it about right where labour are.

That's despite Corbyn being the leader. It's where most of the MP's would have the party be, at any rate.

 

[Toffeelover]

Industry has changed, it hasn't been destroyed. If you look at the manufacturing that is thriving in Britain it's in the high end of things around university towns such as Cambridge. What has changed is that we no longer offer much in the low-skill side of manufacturing, in large part because trying to compete on cost with China, Mexico et al would be madness, so we've moved up to compete more on quality.

I think I'm right in saying, for instance, that the manufacturing sector has seen faster growth in masters degree holders than any industry in the UK.

The challenge, both politically and socially, is in providing work for those with few skills, and I feel that this notion that we should have a manufacturing industry to provide work for such people is rather fanciful.

At last some thing I can agree with that you have posted Bruce. It is down to Labour costs just like decades ago the textile industry going down in the face of competition from India and Pakistan, down to labour cost.It is still happening in modern times, Ford closed the Transit factory in Southampton and relocated to Turkey - labour cost. Ford were not concerned about the UK only thweir profitability. This also screws up points made by Esk on the subject of investment.

It is a factor in which I have been pushing that Government should reduce business tax, that will bring in firms and thus create jobs.

 

[The Esk]

That's correct.....and I knew and worked with all the players involved......

Through the selling of 3G licenses?

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

It was all Thatchers fault apparently.......

Wasn't it?

 

[Toffeelover]

yeah China and Russia are looking for buddies, and that always works out well!

Do you class Australia, the USA along side those you mention?

 

[Joey66]

But the other day you said you were a centrist and a socialist, the two things Blair claimed to be. Surely he's your policital idol?

No way Blair is a blot on the labour landscape which has let Corbynism in!

 

[Toffeelover]

It was all Thatchers fault apparently.......

Thatcher had nothing to do with the loss of ability to manufacture nuclear power stations. Just an example.

The poster ignored the fact that some industry has been lost through takeovers and relocation of factories all in the last decade or more.

 

[abelard]

Do you class Australia, the USA along side those you mention?

yes, Real America is itching for more trade deals these days...

 

[The Esk]

I disagree, you are basically a nimby! You want to retain the status quo irrespective of the not so desirable aspects of staying in the EU. You side stepped my questions earlier on the future of the EU which in part is what your vote would contribute to.

You totally ignore that there could be very good prospects and opportunities outside the EU.

I'll refer you to a previous answer I've given

The Cabinet was served with a paper on the Customs Union. Research from three seperate organisations suggested a fall in GDP of 4.5% by 2030 as a direct result of leaving the Customs Union. In cash terms the concensus figure is £25 bn per annum.

In order to make good that shortfall Britain would have to increase trade with its 10 largest non European partners by 37% - just to stand still.

The cost of leaving the Customs Union does not seem commensurate with any perceived benefits.

Yes there will be opportunities outside of Europe but the cost of leaving the EU completely negates them.

The opportunity cost is huge. I'd rather we stay in Europe and focus on how the EU with 500 million consumers manages to sell more to us with 60 million consumers than we do to them.

The EU has a combined GDP 6 times greater than the UK - much better we focused on increasing trade with our partners to reduce the trade gap than withdraw and have to seek new agreements and new markets elsewhere.

 

[peteblue]

Through the selling of 3G licenses?

3G spectrum licenses were auctioned in the UK, the major operators were desperate to be involved and bid a total of about £22Bn which went into the governments coffers. This single destructive act set off the chain of events which led to the demise of the UK telecoms manufacturing Industry of which Marconi was the big beast.......

 

[Toffeelover]

I'll refer you to a previous answer I've given



Yes there will be opportunities outside of Europe but the cost of leaving the EU completely negates them.

The opportunity cost is huge. I'd rather we stay in Europe and focus on how the EU with 500 million consumers manages to sell more to us with 60 million consumers than we do to them.

The EU has a combined GDP 6 times greater than the UK - much better we focused on increasing trade with our partners to reduce the trade gap than withdraw and have to seek new agreements and new markets elsewhere.

Needless to say you and I will not see eye to eye on this, so be it. But you have never responded to my point about the future of the EU as outlined in Merkel's speech and the same attitude being quietly mentioned by Juncker plus some high up folk talking of harmonising tax rates across the EU. Now to me this would be a greater cost to our country.

 

[peteblue]

Thatcher had nothing to do with the loss of ability to manufacture nuclear power stations. Just an example.

The poster ignored the fact that some industry has been lost through takeovers and relocation of factories all in the last decade or more.

I know mate, I was being flippant. They also ignore any Labour governments or governments not led by Thatcher. It's always Thatchers fault, now what was the question.......